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Transcription Daniel Sheehan on Fade to Black, November 28, 2022

12.12.22 | LT | No Comments

I used Otter.ai, an AI transcription program for this, but it had a lot of trouble with both Danny’s and Jimmy’s conversation. I cleaned it up the best I could. If you see errors, just email me the correction.

Fade2Black_otter.ai

November 28, 2022
Fade to Black with Jimmy Church
Guest, Daniel Sheehan
JC
All right, welcome to Fade to Black. Today's Monday, November 28 2022,
and our guest tonight is Danny Sheehan, and we are going to be
discussing 2022 UFOs UAP. You know, moving into 2023, the current
state of disclosure, and what the position is in Washington DC and the
Pentagon, and of course, the long delayed UFO UAP report. Now Danny is
a graduate of Harvard Law School. He's got a long and distinguished
history of public interest counsel and was legal counsel in the
Pentagon Papers case, Iran Contra, Three-Mile Island, and the Karen
Silkwood cases, as well as many other high-profile cases. He shares
the responsibility for formulation of a worldview that represents one
or more extraterrestrial civilizations are presently visiting our
planet and interacting with members of our species. I would like to
welcome back the one and only Danny Sheehan.
Danny, good evening, young man.
DS
Good evening, Jimmy. Good to see you after Turkey Day.
JC
Yeah, happy Turkey Day to you. We just had a chance to hang out a
couple of weeks ago here in Los Angeles. It was great to see you, and
I want to jump straight into the conversation tonight, which is for
the first time in history, we're at a tangible moment where things, it
feels like we can reach out and touch disclosure, and the UFO question
and Washington seems to maybe want to become our friends. That's where
we are today. What's your take on that?
DS
Well, I'm glad you asked. This all circulates of course around you
know, Senate Bill 4503. This is the brand new step that has been taken
by the Congress of the United States, by the actual elected
representatives of the people, that have for the very first time in
the 75-year recent history of this particular phenomena, where they
have actually stood up on their hind legs, stood up and said that,
look, we are insisting upon being briefed now by all of the Defense
Department agencies, all of the intelligence community agencies, and
all of the private contractors that have been involved in
investigating this UFO UAP phenomenon over the past 75 years, and
you're going to brief us.
They're establishing an office, a joint office to investigate the UAP
phenomenon which is going to be chaired by a Director who's going to
be appointed by the Secretary of Defense. There's an Assistant
Director that's going to be appointed by the Director of National
Intelligence. It's been mandated in the bill that they'd appropriate
all of the money that's necessary to do a number of things. Some of
them are less sexy, but they're important. Like, for example, to set
up a very specific procedure, pursuant to which all of the different
employees in the government are mandated to report the information
that they have about the UAP phenomenon and UFOs to the to the office,
set up a series of procedures for filing reports with the Senate
Intelligence Committee, Defense Department and other Appropriations
Committees of the Congress of the United States, and that they have to
be filing reports every 90 days, giving them an update on what the
most recent sightings have been.
JC
Yeah, well, let me jump in right there before we let that very
important point get past us. It was mandated that there was going to
be something delivered on October 31. Ironically, you know, Halloween,
and we're sitting now, today is November 28. So it felt like that was
law, right, that this was required. Is there a reason why nobody paid
attention to that date?
DS
Yeah. What's happened here is everybody now knows that the Congress
has basically overwritten the kind of lackluster semi-effort that was
being made by the Executive Branch itself. When Lue Elizondo and Chris
Mellon came forward back in 2017 December and revealed to the world on
the front pages of the New York Times that UFOs are real and that the
United States Pentagon knows that they're real, that they've been
concealing this for decades, what happened is first, as you remember,
the elements inside the Defense Department denied that it was true.
They pretended they didn't know who Lue Elizondo was, pretended there
was nothing going on here, but then they finally had to acknowledge
that yes, it turns out that is true.
What they said is, therefore, first, they said there's no such thing
as the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Project that Lue
Elizondo has been saying he was the Director of, there's no such
thing, and the way they did that was they closed it down, and
therefore they could say there is no such thing. What they did is they
secretly went out the backdoor and they set up a pseudo-project inside
the Office of Naval Intelligence called the UAP Task Force but they
didn't appoint anybody to it. I interviewed the people that were staff
for AATIP that were wondering when they're going to get contacted or
they're going to end up getting to go to work for this new task force.
Nothing was happening.
So one of the Congress people demanded they have a hearing about it.
So the day before the hearing was scheduled, the Executive Branch's
Defense Department said okay look, we're going to appoint somebody to
be the head of that new UAP office at the Office of Naval
Intelligence, but the fact is, they haven't done anything. So what
happened is the Congress came forward, you know, led jointly by both
political parties, you know, that you had Senator Rubio from Florida,
and you had Senator Warner from Virginia, the Chairman and Vice-
Chairman of the Intelligence Committee. Look, we're going to take the
bit in our teeth here, Congress, and we're going to pass a law. We're
going to put into the National Defense Intelligence Bill, that the
funding of the entire intelligence community, which is part of the
National Defense Authorization Act, we're going to put in 13 pages
that mandate setting up a really meaningful office, to garner together
all of this information and evidence, do an analysis of it, set up a
capacity to go out and respond to sightings. Bring scientists in to do
an investigation of these things. This is an extremely robust response
on the part of Congress, because what they did is they basically just
pushed aside this pseudo-camouflage effort that was going to be going
on by the Defense Department under the auspices of the new UAP Task
Force inside the Office of Naval Intelligence. Nobody, nobody was
taking that seriously.
So that what they did is push them aside and said, look, stand back,
we're putting together this brand new office, and they put the thing
forward. As I say there's 13 pages of it going into extreme detail and
you can tell they brought on their staff of lawyers to say look, let's
figure out how not to give the Executive Branch any wiggle room to get
out of this thing. Now, there are a handful of things, and we can go
through some of them, but you know, there's some very, very positive
features about this proposed law and there are some weak points that
it still has, and I've gone through the thing 100 times, you can see
it here. There's all kinds of highlighting, all kinds of green
underlining of the good things, red underlining the things that are
bad, so in typical Harvard Law School-like fashion, I've gone through
the thing, and I've had meetings with some of the staff people that
are working on the bill at the Senate to try to get them to close up
some of these red spots.
For example, they had a provision in that original draft of the bill
that anybody in the government who wanted to report information about
a UFO to this office, had to first get interviewed by the FBI to see
whether, I don't know what the reason was, but it was clear that would
function as a substantial deterrent to a lot of people. Because, as
you know, if you're being interviewed by the FBI, and they come to the
conclusion that you've misrepresented anything to them, they gotta
charge you with a crime. So I met with some of the staff people, and
they said, look, you got to get rid of this thing. I wasn't the only
one obviously, anybody with a political IQ above room temperature,
knew you had to get the FBI out of this. So they put it, they pushed
them out, and so there's no requirement like that here anymore and
they've set up a very important whistleblower provision in here that
absolutely nothing can be done to retaliate in any way whatsoever
against anybody who comes forward and gives the information that they
have, and they've got a specific provision in here setting aside any
non-disclosure agreements ever entered into before.
JC
Let's pause there too, as well. I keep interrupting Danny, he's used
to it over the years. Is this when you sign these security oaths and
these NDAs there is a threat of imprisonment and you know, that
classic, you know $10,000 fine, right? And so, are you saying that can
be nullified?
DS
Non-disclosures because, under the previous non-disclosure agreements
that were operative, if anybody came forward and tried to tell their
Senator or Congressperson, or anybody in the Congress like this, about
the information they had, they could be charged with violating their
non-disclosure agreement. What they've done here in the statute is
they've set aside those previous non-disclosure agreements with regard
to the staff of this office, so that they can come forward. That
doesn't mean you can go and tell the New York Times or get up on the
street corner and start telling everybody about it, but they've opened
up the channel now for all this information to flow into into these
Senators and Congress people.
So this is an absolute watershed moment, actually, in the disclosure,
or the official disclosure dynamic in history. You know, there have
been all kinds of stuff - you and I've been at this for decades now -
and so there have been all kinds of progress made with regard to
revealing more and more information about all of this, and people have
done great work on this. Richard Dolan has done his two volumes, you
know, digging government documents out and showing everybody and there
have been, you know, literally dozens of people who've been devoting
their lives to trying to get this done because they knew the
importance of this extraordinarily important subject. But now what's
happened is the Congress of the United States has moved in and you've
gotten elected political officials in whose interest, in their elected
interest, is to get something done about this.
JC
Moving on, now, there's not any doubt in my mind that the the powers
that be within the Executive Branch and within the major corporations
that are the contractors are going to push back against this thing and
try to put pressure on the various Senators and Congress people not to
really do anything about this.
DS
There's no doubt about that, but what we're doing, I'm in the process
now, is setting up a separate a brand new 501(c)3 public interest
organization that will in fact, duplicate everything that's going on
here. We're going to use this exact bill, all the details, all the
divisions, all the criteria, everything in it, and what we're going to
do is going to undertake to try to bring everybody in the community
together into a coordinated process of sharing all of our information
that we have about this, all the different reports we have about this,
these reports and get on top of this with this office to make sure
that the Senators and Congress people do not fold in the face of this
kind of response that we know is going to be coming primarily from the
major defense industry people who want to capture this technology,
capitalize on it, and make as much money as they can on it, and also
elements, darker elements inside the Defense Department that view any
type of incursion into earthly airspace as being somehow a violation
of their mission, if they're not in charge of that and can't dominate
it and control it.
So there's a reflexive reaction on the part of people inside the
Defense Department to perceive the entire phenomenon as some type of
not only threat, but to be candid about it, an opportunity to increase
their funding in a bureaucratic way, and so that we know that those
elements are going to be operative here, and so what we need to do is
have this new 501(c)3 organization, to have this thing put together,
get it funded in a substantial way. What I've done is I'm reaching out
to a number of the major programs that are going on, commercial
programs that are going on around the country, trying to capitalize on
this and television shows, and all of that stuff, and say look, if you
guys really want to have objective information, to report on, you know
who to interview and things like this, what you ought to do is you
ought to have the people that are your financial backers, and your
supporters, you know, whatever, tax deductible contributions that
they're going to choose to actually make, have them go to this
501(c)3.
And so it'll have the kind of financing, the kind of staff, the kind
of professionalism that will be necessary, but we want to do is we
want to duplicate to the greatest possible degree that we can the
actual functions of this office that is being set up inside the United
States Congress. Now we know that we don't have the security
clearances that will cause people in the military, for example, to
come rushing into us, let us tell you to what we know, but we have all
kinds of other people that are going to be coming and talking to us.
We're going to be setting up protocols pursuant to which we're going
to be able to protect the confidential sources that will come to us.
If somebody comes to a member of the Senate or the office of this
joint investigative office, and they're not responded to or they're
pushed away in any way, then we're going to be available for them to
come to us. So we're going to be able to interview them, we're going
to be able to represent them, we're going to be able to bring causes
of action you know in federal court. There is a federal court
provision in this here, if anybody is punished or in any way
retaliated against for bringing this information here to this
committee or this office, then they have a cause of action in the
federal district court. Regular federal court lawsuit, others. I mean,
this is extraordinary. This is a cause of action has been created by
the United States Congress to give a citizen the right to bring an
action in front of the United States Courts.
JC
Do you have a UFO judge in mind?
DS
Okay, they're all gonna be a little surprised, but the fact is almost
all the judges I've ever come in front of in over 30 years, would be
surprised about the case that we brought. You know, there's Three Mile
Island, the Karen Silkwood case, Iran Contra, or any of the others,
are always going oh, no, please give me a simple divorce case or a
broken leg case.
JC
But that's always been the case, right? Where you get the attorneys
talking to their clients, like this guy is a good UFO judge.
DS
They don't have them yet. I can tell you that the first one who gets
one of these cases may very well become the go to person.
JC
Yeah, exactly.
Let me swing back to your point about Congress. Right now we're
getting ready, we just got done with the mid-terms, right? So we've
got a new Congress rolling in January. How does this affect things?
DS
Well, it's interesting. One of the great advantages is that Lue
Elizondo and Chris Mellon and the other people who have been working
over on the Hill to go talk to people, they've been extraordinarily
smart about this and they've gone to both political parties. They've
done it so that neither one of the two political parties has any
specific advantage over the other with regard to this issue. You know,
they both spent, you know, 75 years trying to not touch it at all, and
once it became famous, and even the Defense Department acknowledged
that this was real, they both realized they had to take a position on
this. Fortunately, and Chris Mellon, especially, I think he's been
extremely effective at this, making this information available in an
even-handed way to people in both parties, and so that they've joined
together now as a coalition to bring this forward. The Congress feels
that it has been slighted, you know, over all these past 75 years by
the Executive Branch lying to them, deceiving them, holding
information away from them, frightening them, intimidating them, you
know, and so now they're stepping forward here. So I believe that we
have an extraordinary opportunity here, as they say, but let's be
really clear about the fact that the same forces that have been hiding
this for all these decades, are going to continue to try to do so. You
know, they're not just going to roll over on us and say, oh, gee, on
second thought, we're going to  them because they're not going to do
that. So this is going to be a push and pull operation, but we have
members of Congress on our side now, and we have committees, entire
committees, the Intelligence Committee, Defense Committee.
The problem is that at the present time, this whole issue is still
being presumed through the lens of military defense, and kind of
military intelligence. They're still in this kind of dialectical
mindset about this, because you go down through the entire bill, and
you don't really have State Department people in here. You don't have
you know, there's a recommendation here that they brief the Foreign
Relations Committee, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and the
House Foreign Relations Committee, which is really important. But
there's all kinds still way too much language in here about you know,
threats and adversary nations and thus, but there's some extraordinary
language in here, for example, they've got a definition of what
they're referring to here as these unidentified aerial phenomenon or
undersea phenomena. They specifically say that this definition
excludes manmade technology. They say that right in the bill.
JC
They do and and that's an important point because of some of the
chatter going around the UFO community, I don't know if it's opinions
or if somebody's got some leaked information, but there was a lot of
chatter about the UFO report that was going to change direction from
the last UAP Task Force report that this was China, that this was a
foreign adversary, and most of these can now be explained. That's in
direct contrast to the last report where they said, It wasn't us.
DS
It wasn't, they know it's not us, they know it's not China, and you
guys have talked to, I mean, I fortunately as you know, I'm privileged
actually, to get to represent Lue Elizondo, and we have a meeting
coming up on December 8, you know, with the Inspector General's Office
of the entire Intelligence Community now to talk about all this stuff.
The fact of the matter is, that, you know, we know that they know that
this has not changed, because you know, guys like Lue and Mellon, the
other couple of things, and let me clue you in here. We know that the
Chinese haven't got this.
JC
It certainly wouldn't have been China in 1984, you know, 2004.
DS
or 1947 or 1984.

JC

But clearly nobody had that kind of technology during the Nimitz
encounter.
DS
You know when Lue and I gave an interview to the the Associated Press
guys in preparation for the big report that came out a couple of years
ago and they brought in their big guns from AP and they said, Now,
look, what do you say? What are you saying the origin of these things
are? Lue said it like this,  I can tell you this. You know, I've been
at this a long time and I've talked to virtually everybody. We know
it's not China and we know it's not Russia, and we've got some fairly
sophisticated, you know, highly developed crap. It's nothing like
this, you know, and so we're telling you, it isn't that at all. So
they said, what do you think it is? So well, most of the people that
are involved in this professionally in classified programs believe
that the source is extraterrestrial. So you're actually saying that?
That there's like, you know, vehicles coming from an extraterrestrial
civilization to our planet. Lue said yes, that's what it appears to
be, and so he said one of the reasons we know it's not China or
Russia, he said, back in 1947, and that's the date he took, he said
back in 1947, which is revealing to all of us who know about Roswell,
back in 1947 Russia had just gotten through World War II, they lost 20
million people, not there. They were tearing up railroad tracks, all
the way from Europe into Russia tried to get metal to have back into
their country. They didn't have any capacity to have a technology like
this. He said, China in 1947, their principal mode of transportation
was wooden carts with stone wheels, with horses. This is not China.
There. They've been around since 1947, we've been observing this
technology, he said since 1947.
JC
It could be Canada, though. Right, could be Canada? Not to put light
on this, but today, the reports are now that the United States is
going to now kickstart its hypersonic missile program to catch back up
to Russian and the Chinese and that hypersonic missiles are not this
technology.
DS
Oh no no, no, no, even hypersonic missiles are comparable to oxcarts
compared to this. Yeah. This stuff, this functions almost inter-
dimensionally. This is such completely flabbergasting to all the
people that are up close to this thing, that they're just stunned
because now they're talking to each other now a lot more. So this is
an extraordinary moment, Jimmy that with this committee, or this
office is gonna be set up, we'll have to see who it is that they're
going to appoint and the probabilities are there are going to be
people leaning a little heavily into the direction of it being kind of
military defense, and trying to get out the technology and see if they
can reproduce it and make weapons of it. Because all that stuff, all
these human vicissitudes are still operational here.
But the point is that we as a community have to come together now and
put together an office that is comparable, because now we've been in a
certain sense authorized to do this. I mean, the citizenry, we are the
democratic forces of our country, you know, the Congress represents
us, but the fact of the matter is, they don't replace us, and they
don't take our place. We know that they're subject to all kinds of
political pressures and financial pressures and everything else, but
the fact of the matter is, what we're going to do is we're going to
get a look at their budget. We're going to get a look at their budget
lines that have to be made public, on the websites, and we're going to
try to match all of those. We're going to major funders, people all
throughout the country, the business community and the entertainment
industry, all across the country, and say, Look, we're not something
like that To The stars Academy. There's no commercial venture underway
here at all. We're not trying to make a buck on this thing. What we're
trying to do is to put together a genuinely professional caliber
staff, you know, so that they're gonna be matching step per step, what
this office is doing, and if they miss that, and they don't do their
job, you know, we're gonna move in to do their job for them. The
American people are not going to stand by and allow our
representatives to be coerced or pushed back or intimidated, you know,
by the forces that have been trying to keep the thing secret for 75
years. So that's the moment that we find ourselves in right now.
JC
Now what's the chatter, what are you hearing about this report?
DS
Well, the fact is they were never, the UAP Task Force inside the
Office of Naval Intelligence has  never been a legitimate office. No,
really, I can just tell you, it was never, the guy who got to, was one
person who was put on the staff, you know, didn't even have an office,
didn't even know what he was supposed to be doing. You know, I had
lunch with him a number of times, and he was just befuddled. You know?
He's wait, what is this? They're talking about having a new UAP Task
Force? There's nothing going on here. You know, so what's this
bubbling up? Oh, there's going to be a new report about this. You
know, what this is, is the forces inside the the military defense is
to have fun. We're trying to figure out what to do. You know, I mean,
they didn't know, what, I won't say but anyway, they didn't know what
to do.
JC
Just in, that ODNI - DNI and DOD are not communicating with the Task
Force right now and who do they answer to?
DS
There is no functional Task Force right now. There's no functional
Task Force at all. It's just a total ruse. You know, they appointed
Scott to be the head of things. I don't know if he ever went to the
office. You know, I mean, there's nothing happening there because they
know that this new office is going to completely supplant anything
they do.
JC
You're talking about Scott Bray?
DS
Yeah, that's right. There's nobody doing anything, you know, in
anything that they're doing. Is that worth paying attention to?
Because all it is, is obfuscation. You're still trying to, you know,
pretend that they're doing something, but the fact of the matter is,
this major office is getting set to be set up here. Is going to just
completely overshadow as you'll see in the bill itself. The task force
is terminated. The moment this thing is passed, and it says that so
you know, you're not going to get people investing an awful lot of
time and energy in doing something when they know they're getting set
to be terminated as soon as the bill is passed.
JC
It's worded in the bill that there will be a new organization
immediately established?
DS
Well, no, what it is, is that they're insisting that it be set up
within 120 days after the thing so that's like four months to get the
whole thing put all together after it passes, but the bottom line is
there's nothing going to happen during that four-month period, because
there is no UAP functional task force currently.
Well know what's going on here. Remember, this is part of the the
federal budget. The National Defense Authorization Act is part of the
federal budget process and what's going on right now is you asked that
question a moment ago about what effect if any, has the new election
had, and one of the things that's happening right now is that some of
these rogue elements that have come to dominate the Republican Party,
now that they've taken over the House of Representatives where budget
legislation is initiated. They're threatening to not approve the
federal budgets being proposed by the Executive Branch.
JC
I don't want to get too political here. We kind of have to...
DS
Just the reality of it is that people from an objective point of view,
know what they're doing, and they're going to try to block your
appropriation. They're going to try to not approve the federal budget
by administration cuts out a whole bunch of these social programs that
they want gone.
JC
Sure, sure. Danny, I need you to be, I'm not the smartest guy when it
comes to Capitol Hill, so explain to me the process that is involved.
Here. It's my understanding that this has to get done by December 31.
The new Congress comes in January, right to my understanding?
DS
They've had continuing resolutions, going all the way up until till
this time, but what's happening now is there's either going to be an
attempt to introduce a new continuing resolution to get over, do they
get sworn in I guess, the 10th or something like that in January, and
this will be done by the 31st (December). So what they're going to do
is they're going to try this brinksmanship is they're going to say
okay, we're going to try to blame the Democratic Party for shutting
down the government. Because if there's no new federal budget approved
by December 31, and technically, on January 1, the government shuts
down.
JC
That's not going to happen. I'm assuming that the NDA is going to go
through. My concern is 20 days, but there's that and if we back up,
that report was supposed to be delivered on October 31. And nobody
seems to really give a crap. And the chatter coming out of Washington
DC about UFOs and UAPs. was different six months ago and it seems to
have simmered, do you feel the same thing?
DS
Well, it's interesting that everybody was sitting on the edge of their
chair, you know, fearing that what was going to happen in the
election, they thought that there was going to be a potential sweep on
the part of Donald Trump's recommended candidates who have an
extraordinarily unique perspective on the federal government, in that
they believe that the federal government, as the quote goes, should be
shrunk so they can to the size of putting it into a tub so it can be
drowned, and they don't want the federal government doing anything.
They want the states to be in charge as the states rights, old states
rights argument. So people were extremely concerned that if in fact
there was a great red wave that the Republican Party took over in a
passive way in the House of Representatives, and also took control of
the Senate. Then Donald Trump is going to be coming out on the 15th of
November and he announced that he was going to be the candidate for
the Republican Party, that there was going to be this juggernaut that
was going to take place. All of this activity on the part of the
federal government, which is this is all part of course, would end up
getting pushed aside because it would be very little major progress
made on the part of the federal government anywhere.
And so this office is getting set up now by the United States Congress
is a part of the federal government. And so what's happened now is
because the House election, came out to be comparatively close to a
tie, you know, except that the House of Representatives is now under
control of the Republican Party and what we have to see is if Kevin is
getting set to be elected as the the Majority Leader of the House, and
we'll see whether or not the extreme elements of the Republican Party
and this is all just being completely objective, that the extreme
elements in the Republican Party. If they assert a lot of leverage,
and try to to curtail the effectiveness of the functioning of the
federal government itself, that could conceivably have some adverse
effect upon this, because they will look at these budgets, and they'll
say, Look, we don't want the federal government to be engaged in any
kind of expensive activities. We don't want taxes to be imposed upon
the wealthy people of the country or the major corporations, and
they've got this entire ideological agenda.
The genius I think of Chris Mellon and Lue and so the other people
have been working on the Hill is they have very powerful elements
within the Republican Party, as well as in the Democratic Party who
all support this being done, because the Congress as a whole as an
institution, feels that it has been historically slighted and deceived
by the Executive Branch. So therefore, this is a constitutional
struggle to assert that the Legislative Branch of the government is
moving forward, to assert itself to get custody of this particular
issue. And the citizens as another branch if you will, of the
government have to move forward in a similar way to assert ourselves
in a sound, responsible, professional manner, to insist that this job
be done effectively because this is going to affect us, our whole
human family for the next 10,000 years.
JC
So, are we going to have another UFO hearing? I realize the last one
was a subcommittee. There was some disappointment in it. I thought it
was pretty good.
DS
I didn't think it was great and nothing was better than a sharp stick
in the eye. But the bottom line is this I think, is that Congress is
getting ready to step into this area is such an extraordinarily
sensitive area that they don't quite yet know what all the information
is. You see, this is extremely important. They don't really know what
it is that is known by these contractors and by that this extremely
rarefied element inside the administration of the Executive Branch
that know about this subject. The Congresspeople, the key
Congresspeople a gang of eight, the main leaders want to know what's
going on. Now, that doesn't mean that they're going to rush right out
and tell all the people because that isn't, they're doing their part
of this. It's kind of elite club, but they want to know what's going
on, so they can determine what if anything they think ought to be
released to the American public, then they're planning to release a
lot more than has ever been released in the past. That doesn't mean
that they're going to give away the the family jewels. You know, they
aren't going to say, oh, but they've got right here in the bill,
mandating that the members of the committee, the members of the office
itself, and therefore the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary, the
Director of National Intelligence, be informed as to whether or not we
have in our possession any extraterrestrial vehicles. Have we captured
any extraterrestrial vehicles? Have we had a program that was designed
to capture these vehicles? Have we had a program that was attempting
to reconstruct the the engineering of these vehicles? Do we have such
a program as in this statute?
JC
Well, let's pump the brakes right there. Yeah. What do we do with
something like the Wilson-Davis document, which is now part of the
Congressional Record, right? It's right there and with Ole Shannon
coming forward, Jack H notes and of course Ole Shannon's notes, seem
to support and vet that memo, whatever you want to, transcription as
as being accurate and Admiral Wilson saying, I went out to Lockheed, I
think it was lucky.
DS
It was lucky. Yeah.
JC
And they said it was aliens. They said that they had a craft and they
think it can fly. That's where we are right?
DS
Well, that we are not certain. Yeah, Jimmy that, but what we do know
is that there is the best chance there has ever been and I believe
it's well above a 51% probability that the leadership of the Senate
Intelligence Committee and House Intelligence Committee and the Senate
Defense Appropriations Committees are going to find out, we're going
to find out for the first time some of the key information I have no
doubt they're going to withhold. So there's a couple of really strange
provisions in this Act that are still troublesome.
For example, I'll read you one here it says blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it
says the sharing of information. This is Part Four of section blah,
blah. Anyway, it says the system established under paragraph one shall
provide for the immediate sharing with the office personnel and
supporting analysis and scientists, information previously prohibited
from being reported under any non-disclosure written or oral agreement
or other instrumentality. Except, and this has been pointing up except
in cases where the cleared government personnel administering such a
system conclude that the preponderance of information available
regarding the reporting indicates that the observed object and
associated events and activities likely relate to a special access
program or compartmentalized access program. That as of the date of
the reporting has been explicitly and clearly reported to
congressional defense committees. So they can't do it in secret, but
that they've got this other thing where they say that they're allowed
to withhold information, which is a very very peculiar provision in
here. You see it's over, it's over in this other copy of the bill
here...
JC
While you're looking for that, my other question is this is exactly
what Admiral Wilson was complaining about, that he now understood that
there was secrecy above where he was, oh, yes to the Joint Chiefs.
When it involves Special Access Programs and and any private
corporation out there, doesn't have to answer to anybody.
DS
No, he did, but what they've done is they've said they've set up a
peculiar exception here. Here it is. It's called instances in which
the data is not to be shared. It says, For each briefing period, the
Director of the Office shall jointly provide to the chairman or the
chair and the ranking member and vice chairman of the congressional
committees specified and enumeration of any instances in which data
relating to an unidentified aerospace or undersea phenomena was not
provided to the office because of some special classification
restriction. On that data, or for any other reason.
JC
Well, what does that mean?
DS
What it means is that they've got a loophole here in the bill that
says that they can get away with just reporting to the Chairman and to
the Vice-Chairman. Some pieces of information which they think are way
too sensitive, to report even to the office itself, so that there can
be information given to the actual - Director of the Office can give
the information to the Chairman and the Vice-Chairman of the Senate
Intelligence Committee and Appropriations Committee but not to anybody
else. And so that they still got this you know, hide the balloon here
going out a little bit. So, these are some of the things that we need
to look at, to critique about the bill. This is still their job, but
the fact of the matter is, you know, this is no surprise to any of us
that this particular area still has a domain which virtually 99.9% of
everybody that our government employees believe may well need to be
concealed. Okay. Now as to what all that is, for example, if there's
an extraterrestrial civilization, and I don't really want to speculate
about that, because people are going to think that we know something
we don't know. But what I'm saying is there's still this caveat in
here, where they're allowed to conceal the information, but have to
give it to the Chairman and the Vice Chairman.
JC
Okay, but that's all very clever wording and the reason why I say
that, it sounds to me that they know, whoever's writing these
provisions into knows about the ET phenomenon, knows about captured
craft, knows about the SAPs and knows that the phenomenon is real.
Yes. It is carefully crafted and worded, isn't it?
DS
Let's put it this way. The people that I've talked to clearly presume
that it's true. They don't. They don't profess to actually have first-
hand information, but they they've talked to enough people who are in
a position to know that they're convinced that it's true. They're
convinced that the UFO phenomenon is real. They're convinced it is
almost certain that it's extraterrestrial. There are other you know,
extra-dimensional extra-temporal possibilities that are here, but the
substantial majority of them are functionally convinced that this is
extraterrestrial. I know the church, the people in the Catholic
Church, are convinced this is extraterrestrial, they know that there's
going to an extraordinarily important period of our human history
where we're getting set to adjust to the fact that you know that
foreign travelers have come to our shores.
JC
Okay. We'll circle back to that Danny, but back to these provisions.
Yes. Admiral Wilson stated quite clearly that not only was he not
allowed access, but that he was told that there was a bigot list,
which he was exposed to and he said that bigot list lacked
politicians. Yes, that's black members of the military. would suggest
to me that those that are involved with reverse engineering alien
craft out here in Palmdale, California are not the Senate or not
Congress and are not the President of the United States. Doing it that
way. And nobody in the House of Representatives would know anything
about this.
DC
No, what's happened is that what's happening here is kind of a neat
thing to see where we have come out from under tight control. Usually
every place in the Senate hearing, House hearing is totally
choreographed. Everybody knows who the witnesses are going to be.
Everybody knows what they're going to say, you know, everybody knows
what the rulings are going to be. And they've all established some
sort of a compromise agreement before the whole thing starts, because
they don't want things to get out of control. And what's happening
here is this issue is still not entirely under control. That what's
happened is from the time that Lue and Chris went forward and gave
this to the New York Times, and The New York Times decided,
surprisingly, to publish it. This has not yet come under control
again, and so what's happening in part is the United States Senate and
House are attempting to get it under control, but they're trying to
get it under the control of the Congress. They believe that the
Executive Branch functions at the behest of the Congress. You know,
this is a long constitutional debate of the equal power of the three
branches of government. But the fact of the matter is that from a
basic point of view, the Executive Branch is supposed to function to
carry into execution, the laws and policies that are actually
formulated by the Legislative Branch, and the Judicial Branch
interprets them. And so therefore the recapture of control over this
extraordinarily important subject matter by the Congress of the United
States, is what's in process right now and if they can succeed in
getting control of this, and they realize that they have to, they have
to exercise extraordinary care here. Because if they miss, and they
release any of this information, that the Executive Branch has used to
be a complete third rail, then the Executive Branch is going to lock
down on them, and they're going to refuse to really cooperate with
them de facto.
JC
What does, going back to Admiral Wilson again, because his words were
pretty extraordinary in that document. The Executive Branch doesn't
know anything either. Right? It's still elected officials that come
and go, and the SAPs and what is going on out there, if they are in
possession of a vehicle not manufactured on planet Earth, that's been
there for a long time throughout many, many administrations?
DS
That's right and that's true, but the bottom line is that there are
some people that come into positions inside the military, and even
some people come in positions inside the Legislature who are allowed
access to some of this information. The problem is it's not done in
accordance with any constitutional criteria, right? It's a question of
whether they can be "trusted," you know, are they willing to be part
of a secret elite? Do they have the right interests in mind at all
times?
JC
Which is what the bigot list requires?
DS
That's right, that's exactly right. So it's not dependent upon solely,
you know, exactly what official office you hold, or what particular
corporation you're working with. This, of course, goes to a completely
different subject, which we'll just set aside for today's discussion,
which is this question of some kind of a deeper government, some kind
of a deep shadow government, some kind of elite aristocracy that sort
of is behind the scenes that kind of pulls the strings on things that
are going on.
But setting that aside, the fact of the matter is that the people who
are in the know, there's any doubt whatsoever, that there is some
group, analogous to MJ-12 are analogous to a group similar to the one
that President Truman set up when when Ed Lansdale the G2 for the US
military intelligence in the Philippines you know, at the end of World
War II discovered, you know, $1.2 trillion of gold and silver and
jewels, you know, hidden in the Philippines, and they secreted it,
they went and told Truman about it, and he took it completely out of
the hands of the government, didn't tell the Congress about it, didn't
tell any of the Executive Branch. People set up a private trust fund,
the Anderson Trust, which they then used secretly, covertly to help
fund certain elements around the world to try to neutralize Russia and
to put extreme reactionaries into positions of power throughout the
world. And it was an extraordinarily secret program, the letters from
trust, but this is something similar, that when when this thing
happened at Roswell and the earlier thing to happen, that Aztec, that
when these happened, that Truman said, Look, this is way too sensitive
for this to be put into the hands of these kinds of coming and going
Congresspeople, and even coming and going elected Executive
representatives. We've got to have a trusted man who can be trusted
with this kind of information and to do the right thing. And so that
he set up something very similar to the Anderson Trust. He set it up
that this thing analogous to the MJ-12 have an elite group of people
who are trusted people, trusted by the establishment in the United
States in governing circles, and this group has passed it on to their
progeny there, we don't know exactly who all the people are that are
in this sort of elite group that know about this, but we know that
there is such a group, and we know that it functions well beyond
Admiral Wilson, and it functions well beyond the normal chain of
command.

JC
The J2.

DS
That's right. We know that but we know that it exists so that this
isn't chaos. I guess you can take some solace in that. This isn't just
you know, anarchy you know, just you know, people trying to get rich
on it. There's some kind of an elite sophisticated, very intelligent,
conceivably wise, but completely un-democratic group that is in charge
of this. Congress wants to find out who they are.
JC
Before we head to a break, is this what Kennedy you know, referred to
so elegantly, you know, secret group, secret handshakes?
DS
Well, it's interesting, we have to be careful about you know, becoming
too theatrical about it, but the fact of the matter is that in almost
every single organization that anybody has ever had anything to do
with, you always realize that there is some tiny group that really
makes all the decisions. Like are democratic, just like Democratic
National Committee, you know, there's some group that really decides
who the next candidate is going to be. You know, there's always that
way, in the people who think they're smarter than everybody else, and
harder working than everybody else, you know, and may or may not be
more responsible than other people. To truly believe that they're
entitled and in fact responsible for making these kinds of decisions
that they don't trust these come-again-go-again Congresspeople that
will say anything, do anything to get elected, you know, compromise
their integrity, etc. in that it's not without some, it's a little
risky to say with that without some support for that, you know.
This is so such an astonishingly important issue governing the entire
future history of our human family, that people want to take
extraordinary care about what's going to be decided here. Now the
problem is, is that they do not trust the people democratically, they
know that the elite people who are bogged in governing and making
decisions in our country, to not trust the regular people, and it's
there some demonstrations as to why a lot of people can't be trusted.
You know, if the people are gonna get industry with pitchforks and
torches, and burn your place down if you don't do what they tell you,
you know, you gotta be circumspect about this, and so this thing
that's going on right now is that we finally come to the spot after
you know, 50 years of life working in this area, where we're really,
really long term. Important decisions are in the process of getting
made. There are different decisions that have been functioning for the
last 75 years. That's clear. There's going to be some different set of
decisions. That are made here about who's going to find out about
this, and what's going to be done about this, and that the people in
Congress are going to be responsible for this. So as of right now,
you'll still see that this committee remember, Congress is tipping its
hat over to the Executive Branch, and they say, Look, you as the
Secretary of Defense, and you as the Director of National Security
Intelligence, you pick the director and the director answers to you
okay, but the that director has to brief us, has to give reports to
Congress so that we know what's going on, but they still haven't
asserted the power. This group is going to be setting up the
guidelines, this group is going to be gathering the information, this
group is going to be cataloging the information. Congress is just
demanding that it be reported to them right now. They have not yet
taken into their hands the authority to make these ultimate decisions,
which they are constitutionally obliged to do, but they haven't made
that decision yet. They're trying to find out what the facts are and
then they're going to decide what they're going to do, but that's the
moment we find ourselves in Jimmy.
JC
So let's take our break right here. Our guest tonight, the one and
only Danny Sheehan. We're going to take a quick break. This is Fade to
Black. Stay with us.
I am your host Jimmy Church and our guest tonight is Danny Sheehan,
and what I want to do for the second half of the show, Danny, is
wanting to dive into some other areas I'm concerned about Congress.
I'm upset just like everybody else is about the delay in this UFO
report, what the contents are, what has been investigated, who was
coming forward, how the investigations are being handled, we've been
kept in the dark, and we are not going to know until the report is
released. Both the classified and the public version, and the other
thing about this is normally stuff gets leaked. There isn't any you
know, there's political advantages right to leak information about
this report  and that hasn't happened which says to me, it hasn't made
its way to Capitol Hill at all and nobody knows nothing (sic) at this
point.
DS
There was no nothing there. There was no there there, was no staff to
do the report. There was no genuine leadership by Scott to do anything
about it. You know that they all knew that this other regime was going
to be coming into place now, and so that they've all been basically
just treading water waiting for the decisions to get made here because
they're waiting to see how courageous Congress is really going to be
in getting this office set up. How aggressive are they going to be?
How insistent are they going to be that the compliance actually takes
place here, and so this has been such an incredibly hot potato for the
last 75 years that this move is being made by Congress now to move
into a position of taking control over this particular issue in
sharing some very important degree of power with the Executive Branch
in this area, that everybody's standing back waiting to see how this
thing is going to settle. So that on the one hand, there's a lot of
inside baseball that has to be addressed. You know, who's struck home,
who's going to be working on this, who's going to be hired, etc. Those
are all extremely important, but what for example, when I sit down to
meet with the Inspector General with Lue Elizondo, and others. You
know, this is the DNI. Now, this is the Defense, the Director of
National Intelligence. This is the intelligence community inspector
general that we're going to meet now and what we're saying is like...
JC
When are you going to meet with ...
DS
December 8 at 9:30 in the morning.
JC
December 8, yeah, in about a week.
DS
Yeah, that's right, that's right. So we're saying, look, the reality
is that we all know that nothing is happening right now, that
everybody is treading water here waiting for this to get approved, and
for this office to be set up. See, you know, what, how forward leaning
is that people are going to be in picking a really meaningful director
that's really going to get to the bottom of this stuff? How are the
political compromises going to be struck? You know, so nobody loses
their job or steps on a landmine here. So we are aware, we know that
all that's going on, but what I'm saying to them is like, you need to
understand that this is probably the most important single subject
that is going on in the entire human family right now. You know,
because to say this is going to control our relationship for the next
10,000 years with an extraterrestrial civilization. So we have to be
extraordinarily mindful of what it is that we're doing at this point
and yet, there are discussions that are not taking place, even though
in the bill is really interesting, one of the tasks that they're
assigned to undertake is to ascertain the origins of the UFOs and the
intention of the intelligence behind the UFOs, and it says that, and
so that this more metaphysical or philosophical dimension actually
exists here, but the problem is that there's going to be a great
tendency to focus on the nuts and bolts, the technology of it all. Is
it a military threat? Are they doing surveillance against our nuclear
facilities, etc.? But the fact of the matter is that there's a whole
other discussion that needs to be taking place right now in that this
is the discussion that you know, that was called for, actually,
officially by the Vatican, you know, back in 2009. In November, when
they said, look, the James Webb Telescope is up now, is functioning
now. It's shocking everybody with the extraordinary data that it's
gathering out there. They're totally convinced that they're now
starting to discover the initial signs of life elsewhere in the
universe and so that this moment that we're at is not just coming to
grips with the UAP phenomenon. It's as crucial as it is about coming
to grips with the reality that our human species is not in fact, at
the apex of all biological evolution in the universe.
JC
We're far shorter, shorter.
DS
That's right, but the point is, that while we for thousands of years
knew that we were far short of perfection, we didn't really know that
there was any other intelligent life anywhere in the universe, and
that we therefore had a hypothesize of these angels, in spirits, and
all kinds of other things, but we didn't actually come to grips in any
kind of functional way with the existence of an actual
extraterrestrial civilization of other beings. Wo what the church has
said in that November 2009  official statement from the Vatican,
following a long series of meetings with scientists and astro-
biologists and others, and they said, look, in light of the the
discovery of more and more of these new exoplanets, in light of these
space-based telescopes now, that it's very clear that much sooner than
had been previously anticipated we are going to discover X life
elsewhere in the universe. Therefore the time has arrived to have a an
extraordinarily important conversation among our human family of the
philosophical and theological implications of what this means for us
to discover that we're not alone in the universe, and that we're not
at the apex of all biological evolution. What does this mean for our
human family? What does this mean about our sense of self esteem? What
does this mean for our relationship with other civilizations that may
be vastly superior to ours economically, you know, and even
potentially, spiritually? What is the risk that is presented to us of
our failure here as a species?
So these are profoundly important things that really need to be
discussed and nowhere other than what the origins are in the
intentions are of the UFO objects themselves. Is there any kind of
coming to grips with these profound fundamental questions and
representatives of our people that are here in Congress are, so taken
up with the issue of the UFO phenomenon itself? They have not yet
started to come to grips with these profound questions that really
need to be answered and that therefore, our people ourselves have to
step forward and start to have these conversations, that all of us and
Jimmy YOU and I. But we must have been to 100 Different gatherings
together over the years and everybody's talking about the UFOs and how
the government is hiding things and secret stuff and what's the
technology look like? etc. Some people have drifted off into this
other kind of Nether World of oh, these must be wonderful people. They
must be coming here to help us, everything's gonna be fantastic. You
know, they're going to cure our cancer. You know, there's not a
realistic conversation going on here about you know, what is it? How
are we going to prepare for contact with this extraterrestrial
civilization? What are going to be the public policy ramifications of
this? What's going to be the impact on our religious institutions and
our economic institutions, etc.
You know, these are the - it's almost shocking that we could be coming
as close as we are to fully recognizing the existence of this
extraterrestrial civilization, through the prism of the UFO
phenomenon, and still not coming to grips with these more profound
questions that we have to do. So that's another part of this 501(c)3
that we're hoping to get put together here is a coalition of all of
our people that have been working together for decades together to
say, look at that, we have to set up a process, a means of which these
profound questions are going to begin to get addressed in a
professional, comprehensive, responsible way. So that we can put
choices to our people through a democratic process and so what we're
going to choose to do here...
JC
What's on the agenda for December 8 with you and Lue and the ODNI?
DS
Well, this is the ongoing complaint that Lue has lodged, you know,
originally with the Defense Department saying, look at the ongoing
efforts on the part of major forces inside the Defense Department and
also inside the intelligence community to stifle you know, access to
this information, beyond anything that is legitimate in terms of
national security. This is something that the inspector general should
be responsible for in the intelligence community, not just to their
knee-jerk reaction is to classify everything your classify the size of
the shoes of the Director of National Intelligence. I mean, who cares,
but what they do is they have this blanket proposal of just
classifying everything. What we're trying to say is like this, we're
objecting to this. This is something that is causing retaliation of a
form against Lue Elizondo. That's just to have standing and we're
gonna have standing to get into talk with the Inspector General, and
the DNI, the people that are actually working involved in setting up
this office and deciding what they're going to do here. What we're
trying to do is to say look, let's try to understand what the actual
legitimate area of jurisdiction is, you know, for the Inspector
General's office. The Inspector General is going to be responsible for
making sure that this office functions and that it functions you know
freely and honestly, and they know that they're going to be pushed
back against this. They know they're going to be people trying to cut
the legs out from under this thing. The same people that have been
keeping it secret for decades, and so we're going to have a
conversation, among other things, of what is it the Inspector General
intends to do, some kind of forward leaning, prophylactic process by
means of which to prevent this from happening, rather than wait until
somebody gets beaten up on you know, and then come in and put a
bandaid on it?
JC
Sure, sure, and so all of this is in direct reference to let's say,
Susan Gough saying that Lue had nothing to do with anything.
DS
That's Defense Department, you know.
JC
But there's people inside the ODNI, in the Inspector General's office,
correct?
DS
Well, there's so you see, there's a Defense Department Inspector
General, and then there's the Office of Director of Intelligence, so
that there are different Inspector General's offices. So one of the
challenges that we've had is they they all start trying to interpret
their range of jurisdiction in the most narrow possible way, they're,
oh, you're outside our problem, you know, that you don't qualify for
our particular protection. You know, and nobody's taking
responsibility for the more general protection of this whole process,
this is the process getting set up here. So what we want to do is we
want to have a meaningful set of conversations to see if there are
people inside the Inspector General's offices of the intelligence
community who are going to take this seriously and are going to be
proactive and are going to come up side-by-side, shoulder-by-shoulder
to protect this process that's getting ready to get put together,
that's going to be one of the agenda items to be talking about.
JC
Now, just the ODNI or the Inspector General, do they have a full
understanding what the scope of all of this is that we are talking
about, you know, an extraterrestrial civilization in contact with
Earth. SAP programs and disclosure, do they, is that, do they
understand what this conversation really is?
DS
They try very hard not to, but the fact of the matter is that they
swim in the same ocean there in Washington DC as everybody else. They
know that this thing is front and center right now and that the
problem is that people, and you know, I don't want to be, you know,
patronizing to people who work in government. You know, people who
spend their entire lives working in the military, and then working in
government are used to just taking orders. You know, in that they
realize that the one thing you don't do is you don't step beyond the
area that your superior wants you to do, because they'll punish you
for it. You know, you won't get advances, you won't have a career
left, you know, so all of these people are a very different kind of
person than for example I am who functions in the public interest in
trying to work on behalf of the people to get the constitution to
function the way it really is supposed to, to get the government
agencies to do what they're really supposed to do. You know, the thing
in Chinatown, remember the famous Chinatown thing when Faye Dunaway
asked Jack Nicholson, you know said, I understand you worked for the
district attorney's office in Chinatown. He suggested, but what did
you do there? He said as little as possible.
JC
Yeah. Best scene, because you couldn't always tell what was going on
in Chinatown.
DS
Okay, and so and that's the problem inside Washington DC, is that
people are afraid. They're guarding their jobs or guarding their
pensions and so what we're trying to do is to say, look at this as an
extraordinarily important moment for our entire human family. It's an
extraordinarily important moment for democracy. It's an
extraordinarily important moment for constitutional government. What
we're trying to do is to see who are the people that are willing to
step forward and break out of the mold of doing as little as they can
possibly get away with here to protect this process. This is a sacred
process that's happening right now with our human family and we're
trying to figure out who the allies are going to be that are going to
help do this.
So that's one of the things we're doing in Washington. We're going to
talk to the senators, Senator Warner and Senator Rubio and their
staff, and the people that are working for the intelligence community
and on the Intelligence Committees to find out where the allies are,
not people that are going to subordinate to their superiors, but the
people who really place the effectuation of the mission that we're
talking about here above, you know, some kind of a short-term concern
about what might go wrong in their career - because this isn't the
moment for that. This is the point in time when mistakes that can be
made here can resound through centuries into the future, and so that
we want to be as careful and as responsible as we possibly can here.
JC
Has the cat out of the bag, when it comes to the ET question, right?
Everything has really been pushed down into the media and to Congress
and talk shows and social media. I mean, it is out front and center,
but the world didn't implode inside of a black hole. Right? That
didn't happen.
DS
Mainly because a lot of the institutions have not yet decided exactly
what it is they're going to do about this. They've been trying for 75
years to keep it secret, and to denigrate it and castigate people who
you're talking about now, we're past that now.
JC
We didn't freak out, right? The choice of way that was stated? You
know, you go back to the Condon Report and you go back to the
Robertson Panel, there's gonna be anarchy right there.
DS
Seventy-five years as you know, Jimmy, of feathering all this stuff
into this society. You take the average five-year old, they can draw
you an ET you know, they're kind of not afraid of them. You know that
there's been an extraordinarily sophisticated process that's gone on
over the last 75 years of feathering this reality into the culture.
Now, we don't know yet exactly how professionally choreographed that
whole thing has been, or exactly who the players were that's been
involved in all of that. But it's quite clear that there's been an
extraordinarily sophisticated program going out of dripping
information into the public and utilizing people. You know, such as
Linda Moulton Howe, and myself and Greer and other people, you know.
They're given pieces of information and then you put out the
information and then people deny half of it and acknowledge half of
it. So there's been a process so that people are now much better
prepared for this than they were 75 years ago. I think that we're at
the point right now where the cat is effectively out of the bag with
regard to the existence.
Well, with regard to the reality of the UFO phenomenon, it's very
hard. It's very hard to acknowledge the reality of the UFO phenomenon
without denying that they're Chinese and denying that they're Russian
and denying that they're American, and not realize that the
implication is that there's something else going on here. There's
something, an entirely different level of reality that's going on here
and this is the transition that our human family has to go through now
that there is another dimension of reality that we have not fully
integrated yet. So the issue is the people, the people have not been
trained for the most part even in democracy to do the creative
thinking ourselves, most of the people have been trained to wait for
institutions to tell them what it is that they're supposed to believe.
This is an epistemological question, you know, that the our whole
education system, you know, and people have not been trained to do
this. So, this move on the part of Congress to step into this area and
take control of this information, is just the first step. They have
not yet decided what it is they want to do about this yet and so the
people are, in a sense waiting to see what Congress is going to do
about this. The Executive Branch has already made clear what they're
going to do about it, they're going to hide it, conceal it, you know,
obfuscate it, lie about it, and then try to develop weapons with it. I
mean, they've already made their decision about what they want to do
with it, hazards going to come in.
JC
Well, then you have you know, Bray and Moultrie you know, being
brought up as the first two witnesses for this claim that they
absolutely knew nothing about nothing, and that this is a UFO hearing.
Oh, I thought we were going to talk about something else, and if that
is the case, is Bray and Moultrie, are they talking to Elizondo? Are
they, is Elizondo consulting with that committee?
DS
What are you talking with, the committee?
JC
Without people with the Task Force, the not functional Task Force, but
Bray and Moultrie, were they?
DS
No they were not, they were sent there to just try to fill in the
space because Carson insisted upon having the hearing. So somebody had
to get sent down, so they sent people out who basically didn't know
anything and were so embarrassed that they would display the fact that
didn't know anything. I mean, when people say, oh by the way, did you
know that there were official reports of UFOs coming over our nuclear
weapons sites and shutting off the missiles? Oh, no, we didn't. I
mean, it was beyond embarrassing. So that what they were saying is
that the Executive Branch was basically giving the back of the hand
that the Legislature can say we don't care if you call our people up
here, we'll send you people who don't know what they're talking about.
So the question is, what is Congress going to do about this? The
challenge is that Congress, you know, is made up of all these
individuals and the question is, what type of collective
constitutional consciousness does the Congress have at the present
time? You know, with this kind of divided leadership between the
Republicans and Democrats, with this strange thing going on inside the
Republican Party of these extreme weirdo reactionaries trying to take
over the entire party, you know, and then other elements, the more
traditional elements of the Republican Party trying to salvage the
reputation and long time deserved merits of the Republican Party and
the conservative movement? On the other hand, you've got inside the
Democratic Party, you've got the the neoliberals that have come in to
kind of the ascendancy since the end of the Cold War. Then you've got
the progressives, you know, with with Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth
Warren and AOC and the other people are saying, look, you've got to
get into the 21st century here, you know, that your the people are
going to be younger and younger, they're going to be coming into the
political parties, that there's a great deal of instability going on
right now. So that, well, one of the things we have to do is try to
reinforce and safeguard the sense of constitutional integrity on the
part of Congress itself. So see whether or not Congress is going to
stand up and say look at that we've allowed the Executive Branch to
usurp this particular all important issue area for 75 years, and the
time has arrived now for us to step into a position of leadership and
at least get ourselves informed as to what's going on.
They've still given a great deal of deference to the Executive Branch
here by allowing the Defense, the Secretary of Defense, and the SEC,
the Director of National Intelligence to actually hand pick who the
director is, and run this operation under the auspices of the military
intelligence community. So they still haven't taken an extraordinary
risk here of pulling this completely out of the hands of the Executive
Branch and putting it into the hands of the Legislature. So they're
trying to see how much of that, what they need to do what they're
doing here.
JC
How can we feel confident that Gallagher, Carson, Burchett and and
others, right, and certainly Gillibrand, and Marco Rubio, who's going
to keep them focused?
DS
I think it's going to be a partnership between Senator Warner and
Senator Rubio that is going to really be the key to this thing. You
know, the common ground that those two establish as to what it is
they're going to insist upon, really being done is going to be
extremely important. You know, even though you know, they say over and
over again, it's a government of laws and not of men, but the fact of
the matter is, the personalities here are all important. (Let me get
that. That's my phone going. Sorry. Let me get rid of it.)
JC
What was his ringtone? Did you guys hear that? Was that, is your
ringtone, and that your ringtone is Milli Vanilli. Sarah is the
ringtone? Yeah, that's it. No, it's Sarah is the song.
Sarah Starship, who is also your wife for 47 years. Let me tell you
something. She's one of the coolest people I have ever met. I'm just
gonna say this. We're in the middle of this thing. But we had a little
party last year and she came up to me, am I invited? I tell you
though, yeah, we had a great time.
DS
So it's Rubio and Warren, are really going to, and really Gillibrand
has other aspirations. You know  they all do, that's what they're
there for, but I don't think that Rubio is going to be running against
Trump this cycle. So he's going to be concentrating on doing his job
on this particular issue. I think this issue is one of the primary
issues for Senator Rubio, and I think that Senator Warner from
Virginia realizes how extraordinarily important this issue is and the
two of them see eye-to-eye on this issue, that they are going to
insist that the Congress reestablish its authority in this particular
area. So, I think if they stay steadfast in this and that they have
the support of the people on the House side in this, and they make
this office, it's going to be one of the things can be absolutely
important as its office is troublesome in a democracy, but it's got to
be almost completely leakproof. It's got to be completely leakproof,
this office, and then decisions have to be made by the Congress as to
what they're going to decide as representatives of the people that
they're going to release to the people.
JC
How do you make it leak proof? Let me just go sort of on the record,
Danny. You and I know what the community went through over the last
couple of years with leaked videos, leaked statements, leaked
photographs, leaked this, and leaked information from the last report.
Even the page count was leaked out. I knew the pages, I never leaked
anything, but there were people out there inside of the government,
inside of the Department of Defense that were leaking stuff out to the
media.
DS
Because they knew that there wasn't a good faith process going on.
That's part of the premises in Washington, that if there's not a good
faith process that's going on, people are going to go around it and
they're going to say, look, this is unfair, this is unconstitutional.
This is illegal and so therefore they feel morally righteous about
doing some of this stuff. That's what I'm saying is if this office
functions in a way that is completely responsible, and I think you're
going to get an awful lot of people that are going to cooperate with
this office, you're going to bring them the information, they're not
going to leak the information out. They're going to talk about the
sounds the anti-democratic, but because I do believe that there's, you
know, 85% of all of this information has been classified, doesn't need
to be classified, you know. So what's going to happen here is if
Warner and Rubio and their staffs function in a way, and a lot of is
going to be with with Rubio and Warner themselves, I think they're
going to talk to a lot of these witnesses directly face-to-face, you
know, in a skiff. They're not even going to have some of their staff
talking to some of these key witnesses because they want to know that
they know the two of them know what's going on, so that both political
parties will are represented and that they're informed about what is
going on in the Senate side. They're going to inform the people over
on the House side, the House Intelligence Committee, the House Defense
Department, committee, and they're going to know, you know, what this
information is. They're going to get together and say, look at that,
in light of what we now know, what is it that we as the
representatives of the people, what is it we're going to do about
this? What are we going to do about the fact that the Executive Branch
still has major powerful elements in it, that are going to not want us
to do it, and how are we going to proceed in this? This is kind of
really an important moment. It's all going to be happening basically
between now and the election in November 2024, all the chaos is going
on around us.
JC
Now, were you surprised, and I certainly want to know if you've had
any inside track on this. Were you surprised that there was a media,
it's one of the one of the tabloids out of the United Kingdom, you
know, pops out, Oh, the report is stating this. Then we had other
media outlets and and members of the community that were also given
information and that we're talking about what the contents of this
report was. It sounds like somebody somewhere that has an important
voice or position is leaking stuff out in advance. Then it turned out
that none of it was true.
DS
You're right, that was true, you know, there's no report. There's
nothing going on. I'm trying to tell you nothing is happening. There's
no, there's nothing there, and so they're all waiting for these
important decisions to be made as it should be. These decisions need
to be getting made now, being made seriously and be made effective and
if that happens and this office functions in a responsible way, then I
think a lot of this chatter and a lot of the making up stuff and a lot
of the the kind of go around them and leak stuff, is going to subside,
because if people have confidence in the governing structures, people
will utilize the governing structures.
You know, I've been a large part over the last 50 years in
underlining, you know, blind faith in the institutions of the United
States government. If I may say so myself, and it's deservedly so
because they were totally out of control, you know, the Central
Intelligence Agency in the operation directorate, covert operations
and assassinations and drug smuggling, all the stuff that they've been
doing, you know, and the fact of the matter is that we have hit kind
of a high watermark with that, that we've effectively removed the
blind faith of the American people in the institutions themselves, and
I think the time has come now for us to start to kind of reconstruct,
you know, effective institutions under a constitutional democracy, to
show the Constitution actually can function.
That's why I'm hoping this office is going to be able to demonstrate
to people that government can work, can be honest, can come to grips
with profoundly important issues like this and do it responsibly. If
we can do that, people are going to cooperate and people are going to
come back to support what's being done here. But responsible decisions
need to be made here, they need to be made, and that's why I believe
this 501(c)3 organization that we're talking about putting together
you know, we're talking about it right now, the Institute for
preparing our human family for contact, you know, that's what this is.
This is an actual preparation of our human family for contact with an
extraterrestrial civilization. This is an extraordinarily important
undertaking here and unfortunately, the institutions of government
have not started to undertake this process yet. They're still just
trying to deal with the UFO issue right now. So what we're hoping to
do is to be able to set up a template pursuant to which our governing
structures can do this cooperatively and bring our people to a point
of understanding of what's going on, appreciating what's going on, not
freaking out about what's going on, to be in relationship with the
various faith communities to get them to adjust some of their
mythology that's been developed, you know, back in the Middle Ages,
you know, when 99% of the people couldn't even read or write, you
know, that we've got to update our institutions. We have to update our
religious beliefs. We have to update our philosophical beliefs, our
metaphysical understanding of our place in the universe. This is
what's really going on now.
This is a perfectly appropriate undertaking for the government
structures to be involved in, facilitating these kinds of
conversations. You know, so that's what the 501(c)3 is going to be
doing. We're going to be setting up offices down in Los Angeles.
There's a lot of people that have already offered funding for this to
get officers set up and to begin to staff this operation and to be
responsible, and for us to reach out and establish a working
relationship with the people that are going to be in the school office
to make sure they know that we're attending to them and paying
attention to what they're doing and are going to be monitoring the
effectiveness. We're not going to go away. The people are not going to
go back into the closet on this particular issue. The cat is out of
the bag now.
JC
Yeah, I agree with that. Now if you could wave a magic wand and there
is another hearing and there should be something in the Senate too, as
well. It shouldn't just be a House Subcommittee, right? Who should be
called as witnesses? Should we have some civilians brought in, say a
Richard Dolan? Do we have military Dave Favor and others? John
Burroughs would certainly be a pretty good witness to call and
testify. Well, would you have called...
DS
They first need to get this office functional, is going to be so
important. You know, it's like saying, you know, who do you think
ought to drive this car when you don't have the engine working yet?
You know, what I'm saying is that I think if we can get this office
set up in a responsible way, with responsible staff people and they're
really forward leaning, and are responsible and are trustworthy about
what it is that they're doing, then what we're going to do is really
have to make a decision. What type of external pressure may have to
still be applied, to get them to function more effectively and more
honestly. That's what the purpose of the hearings are about, is to
bring in people to put pressure on the Executive Branch because this
is still an Executive Branch office that we're talking about.
JC
So who would you bring forward?
DS
I wouldn't right at this point, I wouldn't, I think it's premature
because what you're doing then is you're wading into an area with too
many unknowns right now. Because you don't need to offend people you
don't need to, to challenge people or threaten people right now. What
we need to do is get them to do their job right now. We've got to get
this thing passed. We've got to get it, but the first thing we need to
do is to get the Republican Party to agree to approve the budget.
JC
So let's see if this, I guess what, you know, in a more direct sense
what I'm getting to, is we have the Wilson-Davis document is now part
of the Congressional Record. Bring Wilson, bring Eric Davis and  sit
them down and answer some questions. Bring One Shannon, what are you
guys talking about here?
DS
But privately, all I'm saying is you can get the for example, Rubio
and Warner, and the people can talk to these people privately to find
out what it is that they're willing to say to them. Okay. Not a public
hearing, because the public hearing you're gonna get, you know
eighteen different people coming in and misinterpreting what they're
saying and attacking them, you know? That there needs to be a series
of private conversations that are going on now in Washington DC right
now, with important people to get information into the hands of Rubio
and Warner and some of their staff people. That's what we need to see
how the politics are going to play out here. The unfortunate reality
of it is in a democracy like this, with an election coming up in 2024,
with people already announcing their candidacies, you know, is that
the problem is that it's sort of like in war. You know, truth is the
first victim in a political campaign. You know, objectivity is one of
the very first victims. So this is such an important thing that we
want to try to remain objective about and responsible about, that we
have to have these conversations going on, you know, with these people
who have secure seats, they're not in the 33 Senate seats that are
going to be coming up for election. In 2024 it's not going to be with
candidates who are trying to compete for the presidency and are going
to misuse the information that they get. We've got to have serious
states, people working on this between now and 2024 and we need to see
whether or not you know, it's going to be just more Joe Biden, you
have the Democratic Party and whether it's going to be Donald Trump
for the Republican Party. Again, you know, or whether, you know,
somebody else is going to rise up as the representatives for those
political parties, but this work is going to be going on in Congress
and the Senate. The Senate is going to be able to function on this
issue. This issue is probably the most bipartisan issue that I have
ever seen in Congress, and I've been dealing with Congress for like 50
years now, and it had been me with lots of senators. Guys, this is the
most bipartisan issue that I've ever seen, because they know how
extraordinarily important it is and so they're working very carefully
to try to get this thing right.
JC
Danny, you mentioned that there are parties right now in Washington,
attempting to get information to Rubio. What information is this? Is
this stuff cases that haven't been? Is it physics, is it science? Is
there something? What information would Rubio need to see and who
would give it to him?
DS
Well Rubio has seen a good deal of information, but he has not yet
been let into the inter-site inner-sanctum of this thing. The people
who are still guarding that door are still guarding it and they're in
it. The problem is in the Congress, they don't want to invite a person
in and ask them to tell them something that they know the person isn't
going to tell them because that's just that's not constructive. You
know, but there are a handful of people you know who they are. A lot
of them you know, Kit Green, Hal Puthoff, and some of the Bigelow
folks that have been in the area for 50 years, who know, an awful lot,
an awful lot, you know, but there's still not the people that are very
hard. This group, that they're just controlling that information, you
know, and so that those people are not going to talk, they're going to
squat down on this information as long as they possibly can.
JC
Find where it is, I totally appreciate that. But my question is, what
is it that Rubio needs? Okay. He's already got a security clearance, I
totally get that. Yeah, that's information coming from the DOD and
classified briefings and that's got its own slant.
DS
He doesn't have the level of clearances that are necessary to have the
information that some of the people have about this.
JC
Specifically what do you think this information should be?
DS
Oh it'll be the specific information about the knowledge of the actual
existence of this civilization, and what it is and the degree of
contact has actually been established with them. You know, in that
this is very very highly guarded information in that it's more than a
Special Access Program. This is the most carefully guarded secret, you
know, in every government circle, and the United States has more of it
than anybody. I talked with Gorbachev about this. I've talked directly
with people about this and they know perfectly well that there is this
inner sanctum that has this information in there, closely guarding it.
The problem is that up until this point they've been part of this
national security state apparatus, and they're trying to figure out
how to utilize this information on behalf of the unique benefits of a
given one nation state. If they will, that is not the way that this
can be or should be done.
Now, this is a human point in history where we have to figure out what
to do about this so all these structures that we have of the nation
states and the United Nations, and all of these highly imperfect
structures that we have right now need to be revisited in such a way
as to update them. These are the kinds of conversations that need to
be had, these conversations about the implications of this reality
that we're dealing with now are a lot more than just philosophical,
metaphysical and theological. They're practical. They're public policy
questions that are at stake here. There are economic questions, there
are technological questions. There are all kinds of important
questions that need to get addressed, and they are not getting
addressed. Even this office that's being put up is narrowly focused on
the UAP phenomenon itself and so that we need to expand this office.
We need to get this office up and running effectively, running
honestly and responsibly. We need to start expanding this office and
that's part of what the 501(c)3 is that we're going to be talking
about. The 501(c)3 is tax deductible, you know, a public interest
organization that has no commercial interest in this. It's just a
public interest organization to try to bring the information together
so that we can start to craft what the additional issues are that need
to be addressed by Congress and by the representatives over and above.
Well, how does the technology work? You know, and do we have any of
the craft in hand and you know, what kind of a threat might they pose
to our nuclear forces and all that we've got to have? We've got to
have much more expansive, deeply felt conversations about what our
human family needs to think about in this unique period of history.
JC
The the quote from, attributed to Eric Davis in Blumenthal and Leslie
Kane's article two years ago, buried in that article down at the
bottom, and I talked to Ralph Blumenthal about this, he said it was at
the end of the article for a reason, that they couldn't start with
that is the quote, where Eric Davis says that he briefed the Senate in
a classified hearing and told the Senate that we have crashed alien
flying saucers, right, and that these are from all of the people
involved, believe that it's extraterrestrial?
DS
Now if that is indeed the case, yes. If all of this, you know, we know
the cat is out of the bag, but if it comes out that we are in
possession, and the Wilson-Davis document is correct, and Lockheed is
backwards engineering, we've been in possession of a high technology
that could have fed the world, that could have heated our children's
schools, that could have answered all of the mass transportation
problems, the logistic issues, and and the fossil fuel issues. I think
it's not the fact that ETs are here. That's not what would freak
people out, the fact that we have been manipulated by fossil fuels and
oil and the money grubbing, that is what would upset the planet.
JC
No, I don't get that. My own personal opinion is based on what I know
at this point is they don't really know how to make it work, they
don't know how to make it work. Because it's got a kind of
metaphysical dimension to it, a transpersonal dimension to it, the
technology. It functions with telepathy, in a form of subtle energy
fields and stuff that they do not understand. They can't, they don't
know how to make it work. I mean, all this hoopla about you know, we
got a secret. We were flying these things around, didn't know that's
true.
DS
Oh, that Corey Goode stuff and all that stuff, is not true. You know
that. The fact is, they're buffaloed by this stuff. It's far beyond
their technology that they can't figure out how to make it work. So
it's not that they've got it in there. They're hiding it. You know,
they're still there hiding it and trying to figure out how to make it
work as a weapon, or some kind of a fighter, a special fighter craft
of some sort. I mean, it's, as I said, you've heard me say that it's
just like the old Sufi saying, you know that when a pickpocket needs
the same, all he sees are his pockets. You know, and so they've gotten
riveted on this technology in that they're fixated with the technology
about how to how to, you know, bolster the technology and make it into
a weapon for the value of their own nation state of the United States
government. You know, that it's myopic, is incredibly short sighted.
So that, but they don't know how to make it work and they can't fly
it, they can try to replicate some things. They're gonna try to
imitate or whatever they're doing, you know, but they're not, they
haven't mastered this stuff yet.
You know, Dr. Steven Greer and I fundamentally disagree on this. You
know, Steven just hypothesizes that they've got it all figured out and
they've been flying these things around all this time, and most of the
sightings are not even really extraterrestrial, you know, but I don't
agree with that. I could be wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong. So
that the bottom line is that I think that Marshall Summers has a very
important question that we as a human family have to answer here. He's
saying that, beware of strangers bearing gifts here. You know, an
extraterrestrial civilization comes in and says oh, look, I will help
you here. You know, I'll give you a little bit of technology here and
get you over this hump here.
I told the story, Lue and I've told this story before to senators that
what we need to know is that this is the story of the little boy in
the butterfly. That there was a little boy that loves butterflies. He
had a big like, little aviary thing out in his backyard where all the
butterflies lived in this big old, big gigantic cage like a fly
around. And he was he was looking for a perfect specimen to have a
monarch butterfly and he finally found a cocoon of a little monarch
butterfly and he brought it home and he put it in a little box with
cotton in it and put a little light on and kept it nice and warm and
monitored the whole thing and watched it develop and finally started
to develop and grow. It started to break out and the butterfly
struggled and struggled, was breaking out of the cocoon, and was
struggling against the last tiny thin silken thread of the cocoon. It
was struggling mightily. The little boy watched and he felt so bad
about that. They finally got a little pair of scissors and he clipped
the last little silken thread, and the butterfly came free. It was the
most perfect specimen of a monarch butterfly you could ever see.
Except that it could never fly. Because it turns out that the struggle
against that last silken thread was necessary to develop the muscle
structure that the butterfly needed in order to be able to fly. And so
for us, we're at this moment here with our human family where we're
struggling against the not just silken threads of our own creation,
but entire ropes that we've tied around ourselves, of fighting with
each other and putting resources into weapons and in being racially
prejudiced and gender prejudiced and everything that we're at a
particular stage right now, where we have to evolve. We have to evolve
in order to reach up into the stars here. This is an extraordinary
moment that we have here. So we have to supplement this work that's
being done by this office as important as it is to look into the UFO
phenomena, to surround it with a philosophical, theological,
metaphysical set of discussions about our whole human family so that
we can transcend our own self-imposed constraints on our possibilities
here. That's what the 501(c)3 is hopefully going to be, and people
that are stepping forward insisting that we put this together, is
going to just mean it's going to do it.
I have to reach out and talk with all of our people and all of our
friends that we've made down over the last 50 years of working
together, to try to overcome our own internal challenges in our own
community, to be able to help our larger community here in the United
States and our whole planet. That's what's really going on here,
Jimmy, but this is the moment. You know, this focus on this office has
been set up by the Defense Department, in the United States Congress,
and the Senate is going to be extremely important. You know, I want to
to work with everybody that we possibly can to cooperate on this.
JC
Where can everybody reach out if they  want to help or get involved?
DS
Well, they can contact me at the Romero Institute. It's named after
Oscar Romero, the Catholic priest who was murdered down in El Salvador
trying to help poor people. FYI, the 501(c)3 public interest
organization, we have a whole integrated auxiliary project which is a
New Paradigm Project, but that's going to be the home of the 501(c)3.
We're going to set up a completely independent 501(c)3 in cooperation
with all of our friends.
They can reach me at at daniel.sheehan@romeroinstitute.org or (Daniel
dot Sheehan at Premier institute.org - not working) and I will get
back to everybody and try to get people involved in the conversation
so that we can set up the office in Los Angeles. People are offering
us a facility down there, a big facility that we can use and staff up,
are offering us funds to put it together. I have to put together the
administration of the thing and the coalition of people that will be
advisors to this. I want us all to remain completely friendly and
leaning into getting this thing to succeed this 501(c)3, that we're
going to be putting together.
JC
Danny, thank you so much. I'm going to be hanging out with you in a
couple of months at EXPO once again this year. It's going to be
amazing and hopefully I'll see you before then. Thank you my friend
for everything that you do.
DS
Thank you for everything you do and for everybody out there. I really
appreciate getting a chance to chat with you.
JC
You're the absolute best Danny Sheehan, and again everybody can reach
out to Danny at the Romero Institute and the links for that are below.
Danny, behave and be well my friend.
DS
I will, thank you so much Jimmy.
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