I used Otter.ai, an AI transcription program for this, but it had a lot of trouble with both Danny’s and Jimmy’s conversation. I cleaned it up the best I could. If you see errors, just email me the correction.
November 28, 2022 Fade to Black with Jimmy Church Guest, Daniel Sheehan
JC All right, welcome to Fade to Black. Today's Monday, November 28 2022, and our guest tonight is Danny Sheehan, and we are going to be discussing 2022 UFOs UAP. You know, moving into 2023, the current state of disclosure, and what the position is in Washington DC and the Pentagon, and of course, the long delayed UFO UAP report. Now Danny is a graduate of Harvard Law School. He's got a long and distinguished history of public interest counsel and was legal counsel in the Pentagon Papers case, Iran Contra, Three-Mile Island, and the Karen Silkwood cases, as well as many other high-profile cases. He shares the responsibility for formulation of a worldview that represents one or more extraterrestrial civilizations are presently visiting our planet and interacting with members of our species. I would like to welcome back the one and only Danny Sheehan.
Danny, good evening, young man.
DS Good evening, Jimmy. Good to see you after Turkey Day.
JC Yeah, happy Turkey Day to you. We just had a chance to hang out a couple of weeks ago here in Los Angeles. It was great to see you, and I want to jump straight into the conversation tonight, which is for the first time in history, we're at a tangible moment where things, it feels like we can reach out and touch disclosure, and the UFO question and Washington seems to maybe want to become our friends. That's where we are today. What's your take on that?
DS Well, I'm glad you asked. This all circulates of course around you know, Senate Bill 4503. This is the brand new step that has been taken by the Congress of the United States, by the actual elected representatives of the people, that have for the very first time in the 75-year recent history of this particular phenomena, where they have actually stood up on their hind legs, stood up and said that, look, we are insisting upon being briefed now by all of the Defense Department agencies, all of the intelligence community agencies, and all of the private contractors that have been involved in investigating this UFO UAP phenomenon over the past 75 years, and you're going to brief us.
They're establishing an office, a joint office to investigate the UAP phenomenon which is going to be chaired by a Director who's going to
be appointed by the Secretary of Defense. There's an Assistant Director that's going to be appointed by the Director of National Intelligence. It's been mandated in the bill that they'd appropriate all of the money that's necessary to do a number of things. Some of them are less sexy, but they're important. Like, for example, to set up a very specific procedure, pursuant to which all of the different employees in the government are mandated to report the information that they have about the UAP phenomenon and UFOs to the to the office, set up a series of procedures for filing reports with the Senate Intelligence Committee, Defense Department and other Appropriations Committees of the Congress of the United States, and that they have to be filing reports every 90 days, giving them an update on what the most recent sightings have been.
JC Yeah, well, let me jump in right there before we let that very important point get past us. It was mandated that there was going to be something delivered on October 31. Ironically, you know, Halloween, and we're sitting now, today is November 28. So it felt like that was law, right, that this was required. Is there a reason why nobody paid attention to that date?
DS Yeah. What's happened here is everybody now knows that the Congress has basically overwritten the kind of lackluster semi-effort that was being made by the Executive Branch itself. When Lue Elizondo and Chris Mellon came forward back in 2017 December and revealed to the world on the front pages of the New York Times that UFOs are real and that the United States Pentagon knows that they're real, that they've been concealing this for decades, what happened is first, as you remember, the elements inside the Defense Department denied that it was true. They pretended they didn't know who Lue Elizondo was, pretended there was nothing going on here, but then they finally had to acknowledge that yes, it turns out that is true.
What they said is, therefore, first, they said there's no such thing as the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Project that Lue Elizondo has been saying he was the Director of, there's no such thing, and the way they did that was they closed it down, and therefore they could say there is no such thing. What they did is they secretly went out the backdoor and they set up a pseudo-project inside the Office of Naval Intelligence called the UAP Task Force but they didn't appoint anybody to it. I interviewed the people that were staff for AATIP that were wondering when they're going to get contacted or they're going to end up getting to go to work for this new task force. Nothing was happening.
So one of the Congress people demanded they have a hearing about it. So the day before the hearing was scheduled, the Executive Branch's Defense Department said okay look, we're going to appoint somebody to
be the head of that new UAP office at the Office of Naval Intelligence, but the fact is, they haven't done anything. So what happened is the Congress came forward, you know, led jointly by both political parties, you know, that you had Senator Rubio from Florida, and you had Senator Warner from Virginia, the Chairman and Vice- Chairman of the Intelligence Committee. Look, we're going to take the bit in our teeth here, Congress, and we're going to pass a law. We're going to put into the National Defense Intelligence Bill, that the funding of the entire intelligence community, which is part of the National Defense Authorization Act, we're going to put in 13 pages that mandate setting up a really meaningful office, to garner together all of this information and evidence, do an analysis of it, set up a capacity to go out and respond to sightings. Bring scientists in to do an investigation of these things. This is an extremely robust response on the part of Congress, because what they did is they basically just pushed aside this pseudo-camouflage effort that was going to be going on by the Defense Department under the auspices of the new UAP Task Force inside the Office of Naval Intelligence. Nobody, nobody was taking that seriously.
So that what they did is push them aside and said, look, stand back, we're putting together this brand new office, and they put the thing forward. As I say there's 13 pages of it going into extreme detail and you can tell they brought on their staff of lawyers to say look, let's figure out how not to give the Executive Branch any wiggle room to get out of this thing. Now, there are a handful of things, and we can go through some of them, but you know, there's some very, very positive features about this proposed law and there are some weak points that it still has, and I've gone through the thing 100 times, you can see it here. There's all kinds of highlighting, all kinds of green underlining of the good things, red underlining the things that are bad, so in typical Harvard Law School-like fashion, I've gone through the thing, and I've had meetings with some of the staff people that are working on the bill at the Senate to try to get them to close up some of these red spots.
For example, they had a provision in that original draft of the bill that anybody in the government who wanted to report information about a UFO to this office, had to first get interviewed by the FBI to see whether, I don't know what the reason was, but it was clear that would function as a substantial deterrent to a lot of people. Because, as you know, if you're being interviewed by the FBI, and they come to the conclusion that you've misrepresented anything to them, they gotta charge you with a crime. So I met with some of the staff people, and they said, look, you got to get rid of this thing. I wasn't the only one obviously, anybody with a political IQ above room temperature, knew you had to get the FBI out of this. So they put it, they pushed them out, and so there's no requirement like that here anymore and they've set up a very important whistleblower provision in here that absolutely nothing can be done to retaliate in any way whatsoever
against anybody who comes forward and gives the information that they have, and they've got a specific provision in here setting aside any non-disclosure agreements ever entered into before.
JC Let's pause there too, as well. I keep interrupting Danny, he's used to it over the years. Is this when you sign these security oaths and these NDAs there is a threat of imprisonment and you know, that classic, you know $10,000 fine, right? And so, are you saying that can be nullified?
DS Non-disclosures because, under the previous non-disclosure agreements that were operative, if anybody came forward and tried to tell their Senator or Congressperson, or anybody in the Congress like this, about the information they had, they could be charged with violating their non-disclosure agreement. What they've done here in the statute is they've set aside those previous non-disclosure agreements with regard to the staff of this office, so that they can come forward. That doesn't mean you can go and tell the New York Times or get up on the street corner and start telling everybody about it, but they've opened up the channel now for all this information to flow into into these Senators and Congress people.
So this is an absolute watershed moment, actually, in the disclosure, or the official disclosure dynamic in history. You know, there have been all kinds of stuff - you and I've been at this for decades now - and so there have been all kinds of progress made with regard to revealing more and more information about all of this, and people have done great work on this. Richard Dolan has done his two volumes, you know, digging government documents out and showing everybody and there have been, you know, literally dozens of people who've been devoting their lives to trying to get this done because they knew the importance of this extraordinarily important subject. But now what's happened is the Congress of the United States has moved in and you've gotten elected political officials in whose interest, in their elected interest, is to get something done about this.
JC Moving on, now, there's not any doubt in my mind that the the powers that be within the Executive Branch and within the major corporations that are the contractors are going to push back against this thing and try to put pressure on the various Senators and Congress people not to really do anything about this.
DS There's no doubt about that, but what we're doing, I'm in the process now, is setting up a separate a brand new 501(c)3 public interest organization that will in fact, duplicate everything that's going on here. We're going to use this exact bill, all the details, all the
divisions, all the criteria, everything in it, and what we're going to do is going to undertake to try to bring everybody in the community together into a coordinated process of sharing all of our information that we have about this, all the different reports we have about this, these reports and get on top of this with this office to make sure that the Senators and Congress people do not fold in the face of this kind of response that we know is going to be coming primarily from the major defense industry people who want to capture this technology, capitalize on it, and make as much money as they can on it, and also elements, darker elements inside the Defense Department that view any type of incursion into earthly airspace as being somehow a violation of their mission, if they're not in charge of that and can't dominate it and control it.
So there's a reflexive reaction on the part of people inside the Defense Department to perceive the entire phenomenon as some type of not only threat, but to be candid about it, an opportunity to increase their funding in a bureaucratic way, and so that we know that those elements are going to be operative here, and so what we need to do is have this new 501(c)3 organization, to have this thing put together, get it funded in a substantial way. What I've done is I'm reaching out to a number of the major programs that are going on, commercial programs that are going on around the country, trying to capitalize on this and television shows, and all of that stuff, and say look, if you guys really want to have objective information, to report on, you know who to interview and things like this, what you ought to do is you ought to have the people that are your financial backers, and your supporters, you know, whatever, tax deductible contributions that they're going to choose to actually make, have them go to this 501(c)3.
And so it'll have the kind of financing, the kind of staff, the kind of professionalism that will be necessary, but we want to do is we want to duplicate to the greatest possible degree that we can the actual functions of this office that is being set up inside the United States Congress. Now we know that we don't have the security clearances that will cause people in the military, for example, to come rushing into us, let us tell you to what we know, but we have all kinds of other people that are going to be coming and talking to us. We're going to be setting up protocols pursuant to which we're going to be able to protect the confidential sources that will come to us. If somebody comes to a member of the Senate or the office of this joint investigative office, and they're not responded to or they're pushed away in any way, then we're going to be available for them to come to us. So we're going to be able to interview them, we're going to be able to represent them, we're going to be able to bring causes of action you know in federal court. There is a federal court provision in this here, if anybody is punished or in any way retaliated against for bringing this information here to this committee or this office, then they have a cause of action in the
federal district court. Regular federal court lawsuit, others. I mean, this is extraordinary. This is a cause of action has been created by the United States Congress to give a citizen the right to bring an action in front of the United States Courts.
JC Do you have a UFO judge in mind?
DS Okay, they're all gonna be a little surprised, but the fact is almost all the judges I've ever come in front of in over 30 years, would be surprised about the case that we brought. You know, there's Three Mile Island, the Karen Silkwood case, Iran Contra, or any of the others, are always going oh, no, please give me a simple divorce case or a broken leg case.
JC But that's always been the case, right? Where you get the attorneys talking to their clients, like this guy is a good UFO judge.
DS They don't have them yet. I can tell you that the first one who gets one of these cases may very well become the go to person.
JC Yeah, exactly.
Let me swing back to your point about Congress. Right now we're getting ready, we just got done with the mid-terms, right? So we've got a new Congress rolling in January. How does this affect things?
DS Well, it's interesting. One of the great advantages is that Lue Elizondo and Chris Mellon and the other people who have been working over on the Hill to go talk to people, they've been extraordinarily smart about this and they've gone to both political parties. They've done it so that neither one of the two political parties has any specific advantage over the other with regard to this issue. You know, they both spent, you know, 75 years trying to not touch it at all, and once it became famous, and even the Defense Department acknowledged that this was real, they both realized they had to take a position on this. Fortunately, and Chris Mellon, especially, I think he's been extremely effective at this, making this information available in an even-handed way to people in both parties, and so that they've joined together now as a coalition to bring this forward. The Congress feels that it has been slighted, you know, over all these past 75 years by the Executive Branch lying to them, deceiving them, holding information away from them, frightening them, intimidating them, you know, and so now they're stepping forward here. So I believe that we have an extraordinary opportunity here, as they say, but let's be
really clear about the fact that the same forces that have been hiding this for all these decades, are going to continue to try to do so. You know, they're not just going to roll over on us and say, oh, gee, on second thought, we're going to them because they're not going to do that. So this is going to be a push and pull operation, but we have members of Congress on our side now, and we have committees, entire committees, the Intelligence Committee, Defense Committee.
The problem is that at the present time, this whole issue is still being presumed through the lens of military defense, and kind of military intelligence. They're still in this kind of dialectical mindset about this, because you go down through the entire bill, and you don't really have State Department people in here. You don't have you know, there's a recommendation here that they brief the Foreign Relations Committee, the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, and the House Foreign Relations Committee, which is really important. But there's all kinds still way too much language in here about you know, threats and adversary nations and thus, but there's some extraordinary language in here, for example, they've got a definition of what they're referring to here as these unidentified aerial phenomenon or undersea phenomena. They specifically say that this definition excludes manmade technology. They say that right in the bill.
JC They do and and that's an important point because of some of the chatter going around the UFO community, I don't know if it's opinions or if somebody's got some leaked information, but there was a lot of chatter about the UFO report that was going to change direction from the last UAP Task Force report that this was China, that this was a foreign adversary, and most of these can now be explained. That's in direct contrast to the last report where they said, It wasn't us.
DS It wasn't, they know it's not us, they know it's not China, and you guys have talked to, I mean, I fortunately as you know, I'm privileged actually, to get to represent Lue Elizondo, and we have a meeting coming up on December 8, you know, with the Inspector General's Office of the entire Intelligence Community now to talk about all this stuff. The fact of the matter is, that, you know, we know that they know that this has not changed, because you know, guys like Lue and Mellon, the other couple of things, and let me clue you in here. We know that the Chinese haven't got this.
JC It certainly wouldn't have been China in 1984, you know, 2004.
DS or 1947 or 1984.
But clearly nobody had that kind of technology during the Nimitz encounter.
DS You know when Lue and I gave an interview to the the Associated Press guys in preparation for the big report that came out a couple of years ago and they brought in their big guns from AP and they said, Now, look, what do you say? What are you saying the origin of these things are? Lue said it like this, I can tell you this. You know, I've been at this a long time and I've talked to virtually everybody. We know it's not China and we know it's not Russia, and we've got some fairly sophisticated, you know, highly developed crap. It's nothing like this, you know, and so we're telling you, it isn't that at all. So they said, what do you think it is? So well, most of the people that are involved in this professionally in classified programs believe that the source is extraterrestrial. So you're actually saying that? That there's like, you know, vehicles coming from an extraterrestrial civilization to our planet. Lue said yes, that's what it appears to be, and so he said one of the reasons we know it's not China or Russia, he said, back in 1947, and that's the date he took, he said back in 1947, which is revealing to all of us who know about Roswell, back in 1947 Russia had just gotten through World War II, they lost 20 million people, not there. They were tearing up railroad tracks, all the way from Europe into Russia tried to get metal to have back into their country. They didn't have any capacity to have a technology like this. He said, China in 1947, their principal mode of transportation was wooden carts with stone wheels, with horses. This is not China. There. They've been around since 1947, we've been observing this technology, he said since 1947.
JC It could be Canada, though. Right, could be Canada? Not to put light on this, but today, the reports are now that the United States is going to now kickstart its hypersonic missile program to catch back up to Russian and the Chinese and that hypersonic missiles are not this technology.
DS Oh no no, no, no, even hypersonic missiles are comparable to oxcarts compared to this. Yeah. This stuff, this functions almost inter- dimensionally. This is such completely flabbergasting to all the people that are up close to this thing, that they're just stunned because now they're talking to each other now a lot more. So this is an extraordinary moment, Jimmy that with this committee, or this office is gonna be set up, we'll have to see who it is that they're going to appoint and the probabilities are there are going to be people leaning a little heavily into the direction of it being kind of military defense, and trying to get out the technology and see if they can reproduce it and make weapons of it. Because all that stuff, all these human vicissitudes are still operational here.
But the point is that we as a community have to come together now and put together an office that is comparable, because now we've been in a certain sense authorized to do this. I mean, the citizenry, we are the democratic forces of our country, you know, the Congress represents us, but the fact of the matter is, they don't replace us, and they don't take our place. We know that they're subject to all kinds of political pressures and financial pressures and everything else, but the fact of the matter is, what we're going to do is we're going to get a look at their budget. We're going to get a look at their budget lines that have to be made public, on the websites, and we're going to try to match all of those. We're going to major funders, people all throughout the country, the business community and the entertainment industry, all across the country, and say, Look, we're not something like that To The stars Academy. There's no commercial venture underway here at all. We're not trying to make a buck on this thing. What we're trying to do is to put together a genuinely professional caliber staff, you know, so that they're gonna be matching step per step, what this office is doing, and if they miss that, and they don't do their job, you know, we're gonna move in to do their job for them. The American people are not going to stand by and allow our representatives to be coerced or pushed back or intimidated, you know, by the forces that have been trying to keep the thing secret for 75 years. So that's the moment that we find ourselves in right now.
JC Now what's the chatter, what are you hearing about this report?
DS Well, the fact is they were never, the UAP Task Force inside the Office of Naval Intelligence has never been a legitimate office. No, really, I can just tell you, it was never, the guy who got to, was one person who was put on the staff, you know, didn't even have an office, didn't even know what he was supposed to be doing. You know, I had lunch with him a number of times, and he was just befuddled. You know? He's wait, what is this? They're talking about having a new UAP Task Force? There's nothing going on here. You know, so what's this bubbling up? Oh, there's going to be a new report about this. You know, what this is, is the forces inside the the military defense is to have fun. We're trying to figure out what to do. You know, I mean, they didn't know, what, I won't say but anyway, they didn't know what to do.
JC Just in, that ODNI - DNI and DOD are not communicating with the Task Force right now and who do they answer to?
DS There is no functional Task Force right now. There's no functional Task Force at all. It's just a total ruse. You know, they appointed
Scott to be the head of things. I don't know if he ever went to the office. You know, I mean, there's nothing happening there because they know that this new office is going to completely supplant anything they do.
JC You're talking about Scott Bray?
DS Yeah, that's right. There's nobody doing anything, you know, in anything that they're doing. Is that worth paying attention to? Because all it is, is obfuscation. You're still trying to, you know, pretend that they're doing something, but the fact of the matter is, this major office is getting set to be set up here. Is going to just completely overshadow as you'll see in the bill itself. The task force is terminated. The moment this thing is passed, and it says that so you know, you're not going to get people investing an awful lot of time and energy in doing something when they know they're getting set to be terminated as soon as the bill is passed.
JC It's worded in the bill that there will be a new organization immediately established?
DS Well, no, what it is, is that they're insisting that it be set up within 120 days after the thing so that's like four months to get the whole thing put all together after it passes, but the bottom line is there's nothing going to happen during that four-month period, because there is no UAP functional task force currently.
Well know what's going on here. Remember, this is part of the the federal budget. The National Defense Authorization Act is part of the federal budget process and what's going on right now is you asked that question a moment ago about what effect if any, has the new election had, and one of the things that's happening right now is that some of these rogue elements that have come to dominate the Republican Party, now that they've taken over the House of Representatives where budget legislation is initiated. They're threatening to not approve the federal budgets being proposed by the Executive Branch.
JC I don't want to get too political here. We kind of have to...
DS Just the reality of it is that people from an objective point of view, know what they're doing, and they're going to try to block your appropriation. They're going to try to not approve the federal budget by administration cuts out a whole bunch of these social programs that they want gone.
JC Sure, sure. Danny, I need you to be, I'm not the smartest guy when it comes to Capitol Hill, so explain to me the process that is involved. Here. It's my understanding that this has to get done by December 31. The new Congress comes in January, right to my understanding?
DS They've had continuing resolutions, going all the way up until till this time, but what's happening now is there's either going to be an attempt to introduce a new continuing resolution to get over, do they get sworn in I guess, the 10th or something like that in January, and this will be done by the 31st (December). So what they're going to do is they're going to try this brinksmanship is they're going to say okay, we're going to try to blame the Democratic Party for shutting down the government. Because if there's no new federal budget approved by December 31, and technically, on January 1, the government shuts down.
JC That's not going to happen. I'm assuming that the NDA is going to go through. My concern is 20 days, but there's that and if we back up, that report was supposed to be delivered on October 31. And nobody seems to really give a crap. And the chatter coming out of Washington DC about UFOs and UAPs. was different six months ago and it seems to have simmered, do you feel the same thing?
DS Well, it's interesting that everybody was sitting on the edge of their chair, you know, fearing that what was going to happen in the election, they thought that there was going to be a potential sweep on the part of Donald Trump's recommended candidates who have an extraordinarily unique perspective on the federal government, in that they believe that the federal government, as the quote goes, should be shrunk so they can to the size of putting it into a tub so it can be drowned, and they don't want the federal government doing anything. They want the states to be in charge as the states rights, old states rights argument. So people were extremely concerned that if in fact there was a great red wave that the Republican Party took over in a passive way in the House of Representatives, and also took control of the Senate. Then Donald Trump is going to be coming out on the 15th of November and he announced that he was going to be the candidate for the Republican Party, that there was going to be this juggernaut that was going to take place. All of this activity on the part of the federal government, which is this is all part of course, would end up getting pushed aside because it would be very little major progress made on the part of the federal government anywhere.
And so this office is getting set up now by the United States Congress is a part of the federal government. And so what's happened now is
because the House election, came out to be comparatively close to a tie, you know, except that the House of Representatives is now under control of the Republican Party and what we have to see is if Kevin is getting set to be elected as the the Majority Leader of the House, and we'll see whether or not the extreme elements of the Republican Party and this is all just being completely objective, that the extreme elements in the Republican Party. If they assert a lot of leverage, and try to to curtail the effectiveness of the functioning of the federal government itself, that could conceivably have some adverse effect upon this, because they will look at these budgets, and they'll say, Look, we don't want the federal government to be engaged in any kind of expensive activities. We don't want taxes to be imposed upon the wealthy people of the country or the major corporations, and they've got this entire ideological agenda.
The genius I think of Chris Mellon and Lue and so the other people have been working on the Hill is they have very powerful elements within the Republican Party, as well as in the Democratic Party who all support this being done, because the Congress as a whole as an institution, feels that it has been historically slighted and deceived by the Executive Branch. So therefore, this is a constitutional struggle to assert that the Legislative Branch of the government is moving forward, to assert itself to get custody of this particular issue. And the citizens as another branch if you will, of the government have to move forward in a similar way to assert ourselves in a sound, responsible, professional manner, to insist that this job be done effectively because this is going to affect us, our whole human family for the next 10,000 years.
JC So, are we going to have another UFO hearing? I realize the last one was a subcommittee. There was some disappointment in it. I thought it was pretty good.
DS I didn't think it was great and nothing was better than a sharp stick in the eye. But the bottom line is this I think, is that Congress is getting ready to step into this area is such an extraordinarily sensitive area that they don't quite yet know what all the information is. You see, this is extremely important. They don't really know what it is that is known by these contractors and by that this extremely rarefied element inside the administration of the Executive Branch that know about this subject. The Congresspeople, the key Congresspeople a gang of eight, the main leaders want to know what's going on. Now, that doesn't mean that they're going to rush right out and tell all the people because that isn't, they're doing their part of this. It's kind of elite club, but they want to know what's going on, so they can determine what if anything they think ought to be released to the American public, then they're planning to release a lot more than has ever been released in the past. That doesn't mean
that they're going to give away the the family jewels. You know, they aren't going to say, oh, but they've got right here in the bill, mandating that the members of the committee, the members of the office itself, and therefore the Secretary of Defense and the Secretary, the Director of National Intelligence, be informed as to whether or not we have in our possession any extraterrestrial vehicles. Have we captured any extraterrestrial vehicles? Have we had a program that was designed to capture these vehicles? Have we had a program that was attempting to reconstruct the the engineering of these vehicles? Do we have such a program as in this statute?
JC Well, let's pump the brakes right there. Yeah. What do we do with something like the Wilson-Davis document, which is now part of the Congressional Record, right? It's right there and with Ole Shannon coming forward, Jack H notes and of course Ole Shannon's notes, seem to support and vet that memo, whatever you want to, transcription as as being accurate and Admiral Wilson saying, I went out to Lockheed, I think it was lucky.
DS It was lucky. Yeah.
JC And they said it was aliens. They said that they had a craft and they think it can fly. That's where we are right?
DS Well, that we are not certain. Yeah, Jimmy that, but what we do know is that there is the best chance there has ever been and I believe it's well above a 51% probability that the leadership of the Senate Intelligence Committee and House Intelligence Committee and the Senate Defense Appropriations Committees are going to find out, we're going to find out for the first time some of the key information I have no doubt they're going to withhold. So there's a couple of really strange provisions in this Act that are still troublesome.
For example, I'll read you one here it says blah, blah, blah. Yeah, it says the sharing of information. This is Part Four of section blah, blah. Anyway, it says the system established under paragraph one shall provide for the immediate sharing with the office personnel and supporting analysis and scientists, information previously prohibited from being reported under any non-disclosure written or oral agreement or other instrumentality. Except, and this has been pointing up except in cases where the cleared government personnel administering such a system conclude that the preponderance of information available regarding the reporting indicates that the observed object and associated events and activities likely relate to a special access program or compartmentalized access program. That as of the date of the reporting has been explicitly and clearly reported to
congressional defense committees. So they can't do it in secret, but that they've got this other thing where they say that they're allowed to withhold information, which is a very very peculiar provision in here. You see it's over, it's over in this other copy of the bill here...
JC While you're looking for that, my other question is this is exactly what Admiral Wilson was complaining about, that he now understood that there was secrecy above where he was, oh, yes to the Joint Chiefs. When it involves Special Access Programs and and any private corporation out there, doesn't have to answer to anybody.
DS No, he did, but what they've done is they've said they've set up a peculiar exception here. Here it is. It's called instances in which the data is not to be shared. It says, For each briefing period, the Director of the Office shall jointly provide to the chairman or the chair and the ranking member and vice chairman of the congressional committees specified and enumeration of any instances in which data relating to an unidentified aerospace or undersea phenomena was not provided to the office because of some special classification restriction. On that data, or for any other reason.
JC Well, what does that mean?
DS What it means is that they've got a loophole here in the bill that says that they can get away with just reporting to the Chairman and to the Vice-Chairman. Some pieces of information which they think are way too sensitive, to report even to the office itself, so that there can be information given to the actual - Director of the Office can give the information to the Chairman and the Vice-Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee and Appropriations Committee but not to anybody else. And so that they still got this you know, hide the balloon here going out a little bit. So, these are some of the things that we need to look at, to critique about the bill. This is still their job, but the fact of the matter is, you know, this is no surprise to any of us that this particular area still has a domain which virtually 99.9% of everybody that our government employees believe may well need to be concealed. Okay. Now as to what all that is, for example, if there's an extraterrestrial civilization, and I don't really want to speculate about that, because people are going to think that we know something we don't know. But what I'm saying is there's still this caveat in here, where they're allowed to conceal the information, but have to give it to the Chairman and the Vice Chairman.
JC Okay, but that's all very clever wording and the reason why I say
that, it sounds to me that they know, whoever's writing these provisions into knows about the ET phenomenon, knows about captured craft, knows about the SAPs and knows that the phenomenon is real. Yes. It is carefully crafted and worded, isn't it?
DS Let's put it this way. The people that I've talked to clearly presume that it's true. They don't. They don't profess to actually have first- hand information, but they they've talked to enough people who are in a position to know that they're convinced that it's true. They're convinced that the UFO phenomenon is real. They're convinced it is almost certain that it's extraterrestrial. There are other you know, extra-dimensional extra-temporal possibilities that are here, but the substantial majority of them are functionally convinced that this is extraterrestrial. I know the church, the people in the Catholic Church, are convinced this is extraterrestrial, they know that there's going to an extraordinarily important period of our human history where we're getting set to adjust to the fact that you know that foreign travelers have come to our shores.
JC Okay. We'll circle back to that Danny, but back to these provisions. Yes. Admiral Wilson stated quite clearly that not only was he not allowed access, but that he was told that there was a bigot list, which he was exposed to and he said that bigot list lacked politicians. Yes, that's black members of the military. would suggest to me that those that are involved with reverse engineering alien craft out here in Palmdale, California are not the Senate or not Congress and are not the President of the United States. Doing it that way. And nobody in the House of Representatives would know anything about this.
DC No, what's happened is that what's happening here is kind of a neat thing to see where we have come out from under tight control. Usually every place in the Senate hearing, House hearing is totally choreographed. Everybody knows who the witnesses are going to be. Everybody knows what they're going to say, you know, everybody knows what the rulings are going to be. And they've all established some sort of a compromise agreement before the whole thing starts, because they don't want things to get out of control. And what's happening here is this issue is still not entirely under control. That what's happened is from the time that Lue and Chris went forward and gave this to the New York Times, and The New York Times decided, surprisingly, to publish it. This has not yet come under control again, and so what's happening in part is the United States Senate and House are attempting to get it under control, but they're trying to get it under the control of the Congress. They believe that the Executive Branch functions at the behest of the Congress. You know, this is a long constitutional debate of the equal power of the three
branches of government. But the fact of the matter is that from a basic point of view, the Executive Branch is supposed to function to carry into execution, the laws and policies that are actually formulated by the Legislative Branch, and the Judicial Branch interprets them. And so therefore the recapture of control over this extraordinarily important subject matter by the Congress of the United States, is what's in process right now and if they can succeed in getting control of this, and they realize that they have to, they have to exercise extraordinary care here. Because if they miss, and they release any of this information, that the Executive Branch has used to be a complete third rail, then the Executive Branch is going to lock down on them, and they're going to refuse to really cooperate with them de facto.
JC What does, going back to Admiral Wilson again, because his words were pretty extraordinary in that document. The Executive Branch doesn't know anything either. Right? It's still elected officials that come and go, and the SAPs and what is going on out there, if they are in possession of a vehicle not manufactured on planet Earth, that's been there for a long time throughout many, many administrations?
DS That's right and that's true, but the bottom line is that there are some people that come into positions inside the military, and even some people come in positions inside the Legislature who are allowed access to some of this information. The problem is it's not done in accordance with any constitutional criteria, right? It's a question of whether they can be "trusted," you know, are they willing to be part of a secret elite? Do they have the right interests in mind at all times?
JC Which is what the bigot list requires?
DS That's right, that's exactly right. So it's not dependent upon solely, you know, exactly what official office you hold, or what particular corporation you're working with. This, of course, goes to a completely different subject, which we'll just set aside for today's discussion, which is this question of some kind of a deeper government, some kind of a deep shadow government, some kind of elite aristocracy that sort of is behind the scenes that kind of pulls the strings on things that are going on.
But setting that aside, the fact of the matter is that the people who are in the know, there's any doubt whatsoever, that there is some group, analogous to MJ-12 are analogous to a group similar to the one that President Truman set up when when Ed Lansdale the G2 for the US military intelligence in the Philippines you know, at the end of World
War II discovered, you know, $1.2 trillion of gold and silver and jewels, you know, hidden in the Philippines, and they secreted it, they went and told Truman about it, and he took it completely out of the hands of the government, didn't tell the Congress about it, didn't tell any of the Executive Branch. People set up a private trust fund, the Anderson Trust, which they then used secretly, covertly to help fund certain elements around the world to try to neutralize Russia and to put extreme reactionaries into positions of power throughout the world. And it was an extraordinarily secret program, the letters from trust, but this is something similar, that when when this thing happened at Roswell and the earlier thing to happen, that Aztec, that when these happened, that Truman said, Look, this is way too sensitive for this to be put into the hands of these kinds of coming and going Congresspeople, and even coming and going elected Executive representatives. We've got to have a trusted man who can be trusted with this kind of information and to do the right thing. And so that he set up something very similar to the Anderson Trust. He set it up that this thing analogous to the MJ-12 have an elite group of people who are trusted people, trusted by the establishment in the United States in governing circles, and this group has passed it on to their progeny there, we don't know exactly who all the people are that are in this sort of elite group that know about this, but we know that there is such a group, and we know that it functions well beyond Admiral Wilson, and it functions well beyond the normal chain of command.
DS That's right. We know that but we know that it exists so that this isn't chaos. I guess you can take some solace in that. This isn't just you know, anarchy you know, just you know, people trying to get rich on it. There's some kind of an elite sophisticated, very intelligent, conceivably wise, but completely un-democratic group that is in charge of this. Congress wants to find out who they are.
JC Before we head to a break, is this what Kennedy you know, referred to so elegantly, you know, secret group, secret handshakes?
DS Well, it's interesting, we have to be careful about you know, becoming too theatrical about it, but the fact of the matter is that in almost every single organization that anybody has ever had anything to do with, you always realize that there is some tiny group that really makes all the decisions. Like are democratic, just like Democratic National Committee, you know, there's some group that really decides who the next candidate is going to be. You know, there's always that way, in the people who think they're smarter than everybody else, and
harder working than everybody else, you know, and may or may not be more responsible than other people. To truly believe that they're entitled and in fact responsible for making these kinds of decisions that they don't trust these come-again-go-again Congresspeople that will say anything, do anything to get elected, you know, compromise their integrity, etc. in that it's not without some, it's a little risky to say with that without some support for that, you know.
This is so such an astonishingly important issue governing the entire future history of our human family, that people want to take extraordinary care about what's going to be decided here. Now the problem is, is that they do not trust the people democratically, they know that the elite people who are bogged in governing and making decisions in our country, to not trust the regular people, and it's there some demonstrations as to why a lot of people can't be trusted. You know, if the people are gonna get industry with pitchforks and torches, and burn your place down if you don't do what they tell you, you know, you gotta be circumspect about this, and so this thing that's going on right now is that we finally come to the spot after you know, 50 years of life working in this area, where we're really, really long term. Important decisions are in the process of getting made. There are different decisions that have been functioning for the last 75 years. That's clear. There's going to be some different set of decisions. That are made here about who's going to find out about this, and what's going to be done about this, and that the people in Congress are going to be responsible for this. So as of right now, you'll still see that this committee remember, Congress is tipping its hat over to the Executive Branch, and they say, Look, you as the Secretary of Defense, and you as the Director of National Security Intelligence, you pick the director and the director answers to you okay, but the that director has to brief us, has to give reports to Congress so that we know what's going on, but they still haven't asserted the power. This group is going to be setting up the guidelines, this group is going to be gathering the information, this group is going to be cataloging the information. Congress is just demanding that it be reported to them right now. They have not yet taken into their hands the authority to make these ultimate decisions, which they are constitutionally obliged to do, but they haven't made that decision yet. They're trying to find out what the facts are and then they're going to decide what they're going to do, but that's the moment we find ourselves in Jimmy.
JC So let's take our break right here. Our guest tonight, the one and only Danny Sheehan. We're going to take a quick break. This is Fade to Black. Stay with us.
I am your host Jimmy Church and our guest tonight is Danny Sheehan, and what I want to do for the second half of the show, Danny, is wanting to dive into some other areas I'm concerned about Congress.
I'm upset just like everybody else is about the delay in this UFO report, what the contents are, what has been investigated, who was coming forward, how the investigations are being handled, we've been kept in the dark, and we are not going to know until the report is released. Both the classified and the public version, and the other thing about this is normally stuff gets leaked. There isn't any you know, there's political advantages right to leak information about this report and that hasn't happened which says to me, it hasn't made its way to Capitol Hill at all and nobody knows nothing (sic) at this point.
DS There was no nothing there. There was no there there, was no staff to do the report. There was no genuine leadership by Scott to do anything about it. You know that they all knew that this other regime was going to be coming into place now, and so that they've all been basically just treading water waiting for the decisions to get made here because they're waiting to see how courageous Congress is really going to be in getting this office set up. How aggressive are they going to be? How insistent are they going to be that the compliance actually takes place here, and so this has been such an incredibly hot potato for the last 75 years that this move is being made by Congress now to move into a position of taking control over this particular issue in sharing some very important degree of power with the Executive Branch in this area, that everybody's standing back waiting to see how this thing is going to settle. So that on the one hand, there's a lot of inside baseball that has to be addressed. You know, who's struck home, who's going to be working on this, who's going to be hired, etc. Those are all extremely important, but what for example, when I sit down to meet with the Inspector General with Lue Elizondo, and others. You know, this is the DNI. Now, this is the Defense, the Director of National Intelligence. This is the intelligence community inspector general that we're going to meet now and what we're saying is like...
JC When are you going to meet with ...
DS December 8 at 9:30 in the morning.
JC December 8, yeah, in about a week.
DS Yeah, that's right, that's right. So we're saying, look, the reality is that we all know that nothing is happening right now, that everybody is treading water here waiting for this to get approved, and for this office to be set up. See, you know, what, how forward leaning is that people are going to be in picking a really meaningful director
that's really going to get to the bottom of this stuff? How are the political compromises going to be struck? You know, so nobody loses their job or steps on a landmine here. So we are aware, we know that all that's going on, but what I'm saying to them is like, you need to understand that this is probably the most important single subject that is going on in the entire human family right now. You know, because to say this is going to control our relationship for the next 10,000 years with an extraterrestrial civilization. So we have to be extraordinarily mindful of what it is that we're doing at this point and yet, there are discussions that are not taking place, even though in the bill is really interesting, one of the tasks that they're assigned to undertake is to ascertain the origins of the UFOs and the intention of the intelligence behind the UFOs, and it says that, and so that this more metaphysical or philosophical dimension actually exists here, but the problem is that there's going to be a great tendency to focus on the nuts and bolts, the technology of it all. Is it a military threat? Are they doing surveillance against our nuclear facilities, etc.? But the fact of the matter is that there's a whole other discussion that needs to be taking place right now in that this is the discussion that you know, that was called for, actually, officially by the Vatican, you know, back in 2009. In November, when they said, look, the James Webb Telescope is up now, is functioning now. It's shocking everybody with the extraordinary data that it's gathering out there. They're totally convinced that they're now starting to discover the initial signs of life elsewhere in the universe and so that this moment that we're at is not just coming to grips with the UAP phenomenon. It's as crucial as it is about coming to grips with the reality that our human species is not in fact, at the apex of all biological evolution in the universe.
JC We're far shorter, shorter.
DS That's right, but the point is, that while we for thousands of years knew that we were far short of perfection, we didn't really know that there was any other intelligent life anywhere in the universe, and that we therefore had a hypothesize of these angels, in spirits, and all kinds of other things, but we didn't actually come to grips in any kind of functional way with the existence of an actual extraterrestrial civilization of other beings. Wo what the church has said in that November 2009 official statement from the Vatican, following a long series of meetings with scientists and astro- biologists and others, and they said, look, in light of the the discovery of more and more of these new exoplanets, in light of these space-based telescopes now, that it's very clear that much sooner than had been previously anticipated we are going to discover X life elsewhere in the universe. Therefore the time has arrived to have a an extraordinarily important conversation among our human family of the philosophical and theological implications of what this means for us
to discover that we're not alone in the universe, and that we're not at the apex of all biological evolution. What does this mean for our human family? What does this mean about our sense of self esteem? What does this mean for our relationship with other civilizations that may be vastly superior to ours economically, you know, and even potentially, spiritually? What is the risk that is presented to us of our failure here as a species?
So these are profoundly important things that really need to be discussed and nowhere other than what the origins are in the intentions are of the UFO objects themselves. Is there any kind of coming to grips with these profound fundamental questions and representatives of our people that are here in Congress are, so taken up with the issue of the UFO phenomenon itself? They have not yet started to come to grips with these profound questions that really need to be answered and that therefore, our people ourselves have to step forward and start to have these conversations, that all of us and Jimmy YOU and I. But we must have been to 100 Different gatherings together over the years and everybody's talking about the UFOs and how the government is hiding things and secret stuff and what's the technology look like? etc. Some people have drifted off into this other kind of Nether World of oh, these must be wonderful people. They must be coming here to help us, everything's gonna be fantastic. You know, they're going to cure our cancer. You know, there's not a realistic conversation going on here about you know, what is it? How are we going to prepare for contact with this extraterrestrial civilization? What are going to be the public policy ramifications of this? What's going to be the impact on our religious institutions and our economic institutions, etc.
You know, these are the - it's almost shocking that we could be coming as close as we are to fully recognizing the existence of this extraterrestrial civilization, through the prism of the UFO phenomenon, and still not coming to grips with these more profound questions that we have to do. So that's another part of this 501(c)3 that we're hoping to get put together here is a coalition of all of our people that have been working together for decades together to say, look at that, we have to set up a process, a means of which these profound questions are going to begin to get addressed in a professional, comprehensive, responsible way. So that we can put choices to our people through a democratic process and so what we're going to choose to do here...
JC What's on the agenda for December 8 with you and Lue and the ODNI?
DS Well, this is the ongoing complaint that Lue has lodged, you know, originally with the Defense Department saying, look at the ongoing efforts on the part of major forces inside the Defense Department and
also inside the intelligence community to stifle you know, access to this information, beyond anything that is legitimate in terms of national security. This is something that the inspector general should be responsible for in the intelligence community, not just to their knee-jerk reaction is to classify everything your classify the size of the shoes of the Director of National Intelligence. I mean, who cares, but what they do is they have this blanket proposal of just classifying everything. What we're trying to say is like this, we're objecting to this. This is something that is causing retaliation of a form against Lue Elizondo. That's just to have standing and we're gonna have standing to get into talk with the Inspector General, and the DNI, the people that are actually working involved in setting up this office and deciding what they're going to do here. What we're trying to do is to say look, let's try to understand what the actual legitimate area of jurisdiction is, you know, for the Inspector General's office. The Inspector General is going to be responsible for making sure that this office functions and that it functions you know freely and honestly, and they know that they're going to be pushed back against this. They know they're going to be people trying to cut the legs out from under this thing. The same people that have been keeping it secret for decades, and so we're going to have a conversation, among other things, of what is it the Inspector General intends to do, some kind of forward leaning, prophylactic process by means of which to prevent this from happening, rather than wait until somebody gets beaten up on you know, and then come in and put a bandaid on it?
JC Sure, sure, and so all of this is in direct reference to let's say, Susan Gough saying that Lue had nothing to do with anything.
DS That's Defense Department, you know.
JC But there's people inside the ODNI, in the Inspector General's office, correct?
DS Well, there's so you see, there's a Defense Department Inspector General, and then there's the Office of Director of Intelligence, so that there are different Inspector General's offices. So one of the challenges that we've had is they they all start trying to interpret their range of jurisdiction in the most narrow possible way, they're, oh, you're outside our problem, you know, that you don't qualify for our particular protection. You know, and nobody's taking responsibility for the more general protection of this whole process, this is the process getting set up here. So what we want to do is we want to have a meaningful set of conversations to see if there are people inside the Inspector General's offices of the intelligence
community who are going to take this seriously and are going to be proactive and are going to come up side-by-side, shoulder-by-shoulder to protect this process that's getting ready to get put together, that's going to be one of the agenda items to be talking about.
JC Now, just the ODNI or the Inspector General, do they have a full understanding what the scope of all of this is that we are talking about, you know, an extraterrestrial civilization in contact with Earth. SAP programs and disclosure, do they, is that, do they understand what this conversation really is?
DS They try very hard not to, but the fact of the matter is that they swim in the same ocean there in Washington DC as everybody else. They know that this thing is front and center right now and that the problem is that people, and you know, I don't want to be, you know, patronizing to people who work in government. You know, people who spend their entire lives working in the military, and then working in government are used to just taking orders. You know, in that they realize that the one thing you don't do is you don't step beyond the area that your superior wants you to do, because they'll punish you for it. You know, you won't get advances, you won't have a career left, you know, so all of these people are a very different kind of person than for example I am who functions in the public interest in trying to work on behalf of the people to get the constitution to function the way it really is supposed to, to get the government agencies to do what they're really supposed to do. You know, the thing in Chinatown, remember the famous Chinatown thing when Faye Dunaway asked Jack Nicholson, you know said, I understand you worked for the district attorney's office in Chinatown. He suggested, but what did you do there? He said as little as possible.
JC Yeah. Best scene, because you couldn't always tell what was going on in Chinatown.
DS Okay, and so and that's the problem inside Washington DC, is that people are afraid. They're guarding their jobs or guarding their pensions and so what we're trying to do is to say, look at this as an extraordinarily important moment for our entire human family. It's an extraordinarily important moment for democracy. It's an extraordinarily important moment for constitutional government. What we're trying to do is to see who are the people that are willing to step forward and break out of the mold of doing as little as they can possibly get away with here to protect this process. This is a sacred process that's happening right now with our human family and we're trying to figure out who the allies are going to be that are going to help do this.
So that's one of the things we're doing in Washington. We're going to talk to the senators, Senator Warner and Senator Rubio and their staff, and the people that are working for the intelligence community and on the Intelligence Committees to find out where the allies are, not people that are going to subordinate to their superiors, but the people who really place the effectuation of the mission that we're talking about here above, you know, some kind of a short-term concern about what might go wrong in their career - because this isn't the moment for that. This is the point in time when mistakes that can be made here can resound through centuries into the future, and so that we want to be as careful and as responsible as we possibly can here.
JC Has the cat out of the bag, when it comes to the ET question, right? Everything has really been pushed down into the media and to Congress and talk shows and social media. I mean, it is out front and center, but the world didn't implode inside of a black hole. Right? That didn't happen.
DS Mainly because a lot of the institutions have not yet decided exactly what it is they're going to do about this. They've been trying for 75 years to keep it secret, and to denigrate it and castigate people who you're talking about now, we're past that now.
JC We didn't freak out, right? The choice of way that was stated? You know, you go back to the Condon Report and you go back to the Robertson Panel, there's gonna be anarchy right there.
DS Seventy-five years as you know, Jimmy, of feathering all this stuff into this society. You take the average five-year old, they can draw you an ET you know, they're kind of not afraid of them. You know that there's been an extraordinarily sophisticated process that's gone on over the last 75 years of feathering this reality into the culture. Now, we don't know yet exactly how professionally choreographed that whole thing has been, or exactly who the players were that's been involved in all of that. But it's quite clear that there's been an extraordinarily sophisticated program going out of dripping information into the public and utilizing people. You know, such as Linda Moulton Howe, and myself and Greer and other people, you know. They're given pieces of information and then you put out the information and then people deny half of it and acknowledge half of it. So there's been a process so that people are now much better prepared for this than they were 75 years ago. I think that we're at the point right now where the cat is effectively out of the bag with regard to the existence.
Well, with regard to the reality of the UFO phenomenon, it's very hard. It's very hard to acknowledge the reality of the UFO phenomenon without denying that they're Chinese and denying that they're Russian and denying that they're American, and not realize that the implication is that there's something else going on here. There's something, an entirely different level of reality that's going on here and this is the transition that our human family has to go through now that there is another dimension of reality that we have not fully integrated yet. So the issue is the people, the people have not been trained for the most part even in democracy to do the creative thinking ourselves, most of the people have been trained to wait for institutions to tell them what it is that they're supposed to believe. This is an epistemological question, you know, that the our whole education system, you know, and people have not been trained to do this. So, this move on the part of Congress to step into this area and take control of this information, is just the first step. They have not yet decided what it is they want to do about this yet and so the people are, in a sense waiting to see what Congress is going to do about this. The Executive Branch has already made clear what they're going to do about it, they're going to hide it, conceal it, you know, obfuscate it, lie about it, and then try to develop weapons with it. I mean, they've already made their decision about what they want to do with it, hazards going to come in.
JC Well, then you have you know, Bray and Moultrie you know, being brought up as the first two witnesses for this claim that they absolutely knew nothing about nothing, and that this is a UFO hearing. Oh, I thought we were going to talk about something else, and if that is the case, is Bray and Moultrie, are they talking to Elizondo? Are they, is Elizondo consulting with that committee?
DS What are you talking with, the committee?
JC Without people with the Task Force, the not functional Task Force, but Bray and Moultrie, were they?
DS No they were not, they were sent there to just try to fill in the space because Carson insisted upon having the hearing. So somebody had to get sent down, so they sent people out who basically didn't know anything and were so embarrassed that they would display the fact that didn't know anything. I mean, when people say, oh by the way, did you know that there were official reports of UFOs coming over our nuclear weapons sites and shutting off the missiles? Oh, no, we didn't. I mean, it was beyond embarrassing. So that what they were saying is that the Executive Branch was basically giving the back of the hand that the Legislature can say we don't care if you call our people up
here, we'll send you people who don't know what they're talking about.
So the question is, what is Congress going to do about this? The challenge is that Congress, you know, is made up of all these individuals and the question is, what type of collective constitutional consciousness does the Congress have at the present time? You know, with this kind of divided leadership between the Republicans and Democrats, with this strange thing going on inside the Republican Party of these extreme weirdo reactionaries trying to take over the entire party, you know, and then other elements, the more traditional elements of the Republican Party trying to salvage the reputation and long time deserved merits of the Republican Party and the conservative movement? On the other hand, you've got inside the Democratic Party, you've got the the neoliberals that have come in to kind of the ascendancy since the end of the Cold War. Then you've got the progressives, you know, with with Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren and AOC and the other people are saying, look, you've got to get into the 21st century here, you know, that your the people are going to be younger and younger, they're going to be coming into the political parties, that there's a great deal of instability going on right now. So that, well, one of the things we have to do is try to reinforce and safeguard the sense of constitutional integrity on the part of Congress itself. So see whether or not Congress is going to stand up and say look at that we've allowed the Executive Branch to usurp this particular all important issue area for 75 years, and the time has arrived now for us to step into a position of leadership and at least get ourselves informed as to what's going on.
They've still given a great deal of deference to the Executive Branch here by allowing the Defense, the Secretary of Defense, and the SEC, the Director of National Intelligence to actually hand pick who the director is, and run this operation under the auspices of the military intelligence community. So they still haven't taken an extraordinary risk here of pulling this completely out of the hands of the Executive Branch and putting it into the hands of the Legislature. So they're trying to see how much of that, what they need to do what they're doing here.
JC How can we feel confident that Gallagher, Carson, Burchett and and others, right, and certainly Gillibrand, and Marco Rubio, who's going to keep them focused?
DS I think it's going to be a partnership between Senator Warner and Senator Rubio that is going to really be the key to this thing. You know, the common ground that those two establish as to what it is they're going to insist upon, really being done is going to be extremely important. You know, even though you know, they say over and over again, it's a government of laws and not of men, but the fact of
the matter is, the personalities here are all important. (Let me get that. That's my phone going. Sorry. Let me get rid of it.)
JC What was his ringtone? Did you guys hear that? Was that, is your ringtone, and that your ringtone is Milli Vanilli. Sarah is the ringtone? Yeah, that's it. No, it's Sarah is the song.
Sarah Starship, who is also your wife for 47 years. Let me tell you something. She's one of the coolest people I have ever met. I'm just gonna say this. We're in the middle of this thing. But we had a little party last year and she came up to me, am I invited? I tell you though, yeah, we had a great time.
DS So it's Rubio and Warren, are really going to, and really Gillibrand has other aspirations. You know they all do, that's what they're there for, but I don't think that Rubio is going to be running against Trump this cycle. So he's going to be concentrating on doing his job on this particular issue. I think this issue is one of the primary issues for Senator Rubio, and I think that Senator Warner from Virginia realizes how extraordinarily important this issue is and the two of them see eye-to-eye on this issue, that they are going to insist that the Congress reestablish its authority in this particular area. So, I think if they stay steadfast in this and that they have the support of the people on the House side in this, and they make this office, it's going to be one of the things can be absolutely important as its office is troublesome in a democracy, but it's got to be almost completely leakproof. It's got to be completely leakproof, this office, and then decisions have to be made by the Congress as to what they're going to decide as representatives of the people that they're going to release to the people.
JC How do you make it leak proof? Let me just go sort of on the record, Danny. You and I know what the community went through over the last couple of years with leaked videos, leaked statements, leaked photographs, leaked this, and leaked information from the last report. Even the page count was leaked out. I knew the pages, I never leaked anything, but there were people out there inside of the government, inside of the Department of Defense that were leaking stuff out to the media.
DS Because they knew that there wasn't a good faith process going on. That's part of the premises in Washington, that if there's not a good faith process that's going on, people are going to go around it and they're going to say, look, this is unfair, this is unconstitutional. This is illegal and so therefore they feel morally righteous about
doing some of this stuff. That's what I'm saying is if this office functions in a way that is completely responsible, and I think you're going to get an awful lot of people that are going to cooperate with this office, you're going to bring them the information, they're not going to leak the information out. They're going to talk about the sounds the anti-democratic, but because I do believe that there's, you know, 85% of all of this information has been classified, doesn't need to be classified, you know. So what's going to happen here is if Warner and Rubio and their staffs function in a way, and a lot of is going to be with with Rubio and Warner themselves, I think they're going to talk to a lot of these witnesses directly face-to-face, you know, in a skiff. They're not even going to have some of their staff talking to some of these key witnesses because they want to know that they know the two of them know what's going on, so that both political parties will are represented and that they're informed about what is going on in the Senate side. They're going to inform the people over on the House side, the House Intelligence Committee, the House Defense Department, committee, and they're going to know, you know, what this information is. They're going to get together and say, look at that, in light of what we now know, what is it that we as the representatives of the people, what is it we're going to do about this? What are we going to do about the fact that the Executive Branch still has major powerful elements in it, that are going to not want us to do it, and how are we going to proceed in this? This is kind of really an important moment. It's all going to be happening basically between now and the election in November 2024, all the chaos is going on around us.
JC Now, were you surprised, and I certainly want to know if you've had any inside track on this. Were you surprised that there was a media, it's one of the one of the tabloids out of the United Kingdom, you know, pops out, Oh, the report is stating this. Then we had other media outlets and and members of the community that were also given information and that we're talking about what the contents of this report was. It sounds like somebody somewhere that has an important voice or position is leaking stuff out in advance. Then it turned out that none of it was true.
DS You're right, that was true, you know, there's no report. There's nothing going on. I'm trying to tell you nothing is happening. There's no, there's nothing there, and so they're all waiting for these important decisions to be made as it should be. These decisions need to be getting made now, being made seriously and be made effective and if that happens and this office functions in a responsible way, then I think a lot of this chatter and a lot of the making up stuff and a lot of the the kind of go around them and leak stuff, is going to subside, because if people have confidence in the governing structures, people will utilize the governing structures.
You know, I've been a large part over the last 50 years in underlining, you know, blind faith in the institutions of the United States government. If I may say so myself, and it's deservedly so because they were totally out of control, you know, the Central Intelligence Agency in the operation directorate, covert operations and assassinations and drug smuggling, all the stuff that they've been doing, you know, and the fact of the matter is that we have hit kind of a high watermark with that, that we've effectively removed the blind faith of the American people in the institutions themselves, and I think the time has come now for us to start to kind of reconstruct, you know, effective institutions under a constitutional democracy, to show the Constitution actually can function.
That's why I'm hoping this office is going to be able to demonstrate to people that government can work, can be honest, can come to grips with profoundly important issues like this and do it responsibly. If we can do that, people are going to cooperate and people are going to come back to support what's being done here. But responsible decisions need to be made here, they need to be made, and that's why I believe this 501(c)3 organization that we're talking about putting together you know, we're talking about it right now, the Institute for preparing our human family for contact, you know, that's what this is. This is an actual preparation of our human family for contact with an extraterrestrial civilization. This is an extraordinarily important undertaking here and unfortunately, the institutions of government have not started to undertake this process yet. They're still just trying to deal with the UFO issue right now. So what we're hoping to do is to be able to set up a template pursuant to which our governing structures can do this cooperatively and bring our people to a point of understanding of what's going on, appreciating what's going on, not freaking out about what's going on, to be in relationship with the various faith communities to get them to adjust some of their mythology that's been developed, you know, back in the Middle Ages, you know, when 99% of the people couldn't even read or write, you know, that we've got to update our institutions. We have to update our religious beliefs. We have to update our philosophical beliefs, our metaphysical understanding of our place in the universe. This is what's really going on now.
This is a perfectly appropriate undertaking for the government structures to be involved in, facilitating these kinds of conversations. You know, so that's what the 501(c)3 is going to be doing. We're going to be setting up offices down in Los Angeles. There's a lot of people that have already offered funding for this to get officers set up and to begin to staff this operation and to be responsible, and for us to reach out and establish a working relationship with the people that are going to be in the school office to make sure they know that we're attending to them and paying attention to what they're doing and are going to be monitoring the
effectiveness. We're not going to go away. The people are not going to go back into the closet on this particular issue. The cat is out of the bag now.
JC Yeah, I agree with that. Now if you could wave a magic wand and there is another hearing and there should be something in the Senate too, as well. It shouldn't just be a House Subcommittee, right? Who should be called as witnesses? Should we have some civilians brought in, say a Richard Dolan? Do we have military Dave Favor and others? John Burroughs would certainly be a pretty good witness to call and testify. Well, would you have called...
DS They first need to get this office functional, is going to be so important. You know, it's like saying, you know, who do you think ought to drive this car when you don't have the engine working yet? You know, what I'm saying is that I think if we can get this office set up in a responsible way, with responsible staff people and they're really forward leaning, and are responsible and are trustworthy about what it is that they're doing, then what we're going to do is really have to make a decision. What type of external pressure may have to still be applied, to get them to function more effectively and more honestly. That's what the purpose of the hearings are about, is to bring in people to put pressure on the Executive Branch because this is still an Executive Branch office that we're talking about.
JC So who would you bring forward?
DS I wouldn't right at this point, I wouldn't, I think it's premature because what you're doing then is you're wading into an area with too many unknowns right now. Because you don't need to offend people you don't need to, to challenge people or threaten people right now. What we need to do is get them to do their job right now. We've got to get this thing passed. We've got to get it, but the first thing we need to do is to get the Republican Party to agree to approve the budget.
JC So let's see if this, I guess what, you know, in a more direct sense what I'm getting to, is we have the Wilson-Davis document is now part of the Congressional Record. Bring Wilson, bring Eric Davis and sit them down and answer some questions. Bring One Shannon, what are you guys talking about here?
DS But privately, all I'm saying is you can get the for example, Rubio and Warner, and the people can talk to these people privately to find out what it is that they're willing to say to them. Okay. Not a public
hearing, because the public hearing you're gonna get, you know eighteen different people coming in and misinterpreting what they're saying and attacking them, you know? That there needs to be a series of private conversations that are going on now in Washington DC right now, with important people to get information into the hands of Rubio and Warner and some of their staff people. That's what we need to see how the politics are going to play out here. The unfortunate reality of it is in a democracy like this, with an election coming up in 2024, with people already announcing their candidacies, you know, is that the problem is that it's sort of like in war. You know, truth is the first victim in a political campaign. You know, objectivity is one of the very first victims. So this is such an important thing that we want to try to remain objective about and responsible about, that we have to have these conversations going on, you know, with these people who have secure seats, they're not in the 33 Senate seats that are going to be coming up for election. In 2024 it's not going to be with candidates who are trying to compete for the presidency and are going to misuse the information that they get. We've got to have serious states, people working on this between now and 2024 and we need to see whether or not you know, it's going to be just more Joe Biden, you have the Democratic Party and whether it's going to be Donald Trump for the Republican Party. Again, you know, or whether, you know, somebody else is going to rise up as the representatives for those political parties, but this work is going to be going on in Congress and the Senate. The Senate is going to be able to function on this issue. This issue is probably the most bipartisan issue that I have ever seen in Congress, and I've been dealing with Congress for like 50 years now, and it had been me with lots of senators. Guys, this is the most bipartisan issue that I've ever seen, because they know how extraordinarily important it is and so they're working very carefully to try to get this thing right.
JC Danny, you mentioned that there are parties right now in Washington, attempting to get information to Rubio. What information is this? Is this stuff cases that haven't been? Is it physics, is it science? Is there something? What information would Rubio need to see and who would give it to him?
DS Well Rubio has seen a good deal of information, but he has not yet been let into the inter-site inner-sanctum of this thing. The people who are still guarding that door are still guarding it and they're in it. The problem is in the Congress, they don't want to invite a person in and ask them to tell them something that they know the person isn't going to tell them because that's just that's not constructive. You know, but there are a handful of people you know who they are. A lot of them you know, Kit Green, Hal Puthoff, and some of the Bigelow folks that have been in the area for 50 years, who know, an awful lot, an awful lot, you know, but there's still not the people that are very
hard. This group, that they're just controlling that information, you know, and so that those people are not going to talk, they're going to squat down on this information as long as they possibly can.
JC Find where it is, I totally appreciate that. But my question is, what is it that Rubio needs? Okay. He's already got a security clearance, I totally get that. Yeah, that's information coming from the DOD and classified briefings and that's got its own slant.
DS He doesn't have the level of clearances that are necessary to have the information that some of the people have about this.
JC Specifically what do you think this information should be?
DS Oh it'll be the specific information about the knowledge of the actual existence of this civilization, and what it is and the degree of contact has actually been established with them. You know, in that this is very very highly guarded information in that it's more than a Special Access Program. This is the most carefully guarded secret, you know, in every government circle, and the United States has more of it than anybody. I talked with Gorbachev about this. I've talked directly with people about this and they know perfectly well that there is this inner sanctum that has this information in there, closely guarding it. The problem is that up until this point they've been part of this national security state apparatus, and they're trying to figure out how to utilize this information on behalf of the unique benefits of a given one nation state. If they will, that is not the way that this can be or should be done.
Now, this is a human point in history where we have to figure out what to do about this so all these structures that we have of the nation states and the United Nations, and all of these highly imperfect structures that we have right now need to be revisited in such a way as to update them. These are the kinds of conversations that need to be had, these conversations about the implications of this reality that we're dealing with now are a lot more than just philosophical, metaphysical and theological. They're practical. They're public policy questions that are at stake here. There are economic questions, there are technological questions. There are all kinds of important questions that need to get addressed, and they are not getting addressed. Even this office that's being put up is narrowly focused on the UAP phenomenon itself and so that we need to expand this office.
We need to get this office up and running effectively, running honestly and responsibly. We need to start expanding this office and
that's part of what the 501(c)3 is that we're going to be talking about. The 501(c)3 is tax deductible, you know, a public interest organization that has no commercial interest in this. It's just a public interest organization to try to bring the information together so that we can start to craft what the additional issues are that need to be addressed by Congress and by the representatives over and above. Well, how does the technology work? You know, and do we have any of the craft in hand and you know, what kind of a threat might they pose to our nuclear forces and all that we've got to have? We've got to have much more expansive, deeply felt conversations about what our human family needs to think about in this unique period of history.
JC The the quote from, attributed to Eric Davis in Blumenthal and Leslie Kane's article two years ago, buried in that article down at the bottom, and I talked to Ralph Blumenthal about this, he said it was at the end of the article for a reason, that they couldn't start with that is the quote, where Eric Davis says that he briefed the Senate in a classified hearing and told the Senate that we have crashed alien flying saucers, right, and that these are from all of the people involved, believe that it's extraterrestrial?
DS Now if that is indeed the case, yes. If all of this, you know, we know the cat is out of the bag, but if it comes out that we are in possession, and the Wilson-Davis document is correct, and Lockheed is backwards engineering, we've been in possession of a high technology that could have fed the world, that could have heated our children's schools, that could have answered all of the mass transportation problems, the logistic issues, and and the fossil fuel issues. I think it's not the fact that ETs are here. That's not what would freak people out, the fact that we have been manipulated by fossil fuels and oil and the money grubbing, that is what would upset the planet.
JC No, I don't get that. My own personal opinion is based on what I know at this point is they don't really know how to make it work, they don't know how to make it work. Because it's got a kind of metaphysical dimension to it, a transpersonal dimension to it, the technology. It functions with telepathy, in a form of subtle energy fields and stuff that they do not understand. They can't, they don't know how to make it work. I mean, all this hoopla about you know, we got a secret. We were flying these things around, didn't know that's true.
DS Oh, that Corey Goode stuff and all that stuff, is not true. You know that. The fact is, they're buffaloed by this stuff. It's far beyond their technology that they can't figure out how to make it work. So it's not that they've got it in there. They're hiding it. You know,
they're still there hiding it and trying to figure out how to make it work as a weapon, or some kind of a fighter, a special fighter craft of some sort. I mean, it's, as I said, you've heard me say that it's just like the old Sufi saying, you know that when a pickpocket needs the same, all he sees are his pockets. You know, and so they've gotten riveted on this technology in that they're fixated with the technology about how to how to, you know, bolster the technology and make it into a weapon for the value of their own nation state of the United States government. You know, that it's myopic, is incredibly short sighted. So that, but they don't know how to make it work and they can't fly it, they can try to replicate some things. They're gonna try to imitate or whatever they're doing, you know, but they're not, they haven't mastered this stuff yet.
You know, Dr. Steven Greer and I fundamentally disagree on this. You know, Steven just hypothesizes that they've got it all figured out and they've been flying these things around all this time, and most of the sightings are not even really extraterrestrial, you know, but I don't agree with that. I could be wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong. So that the bottom line is that I think that Marshall Summers has a very important question that we as a human family have to answer here. He's saying that, beware of strangers bearing gifts here. You know, an extraterrestrial civilization comes in and says oh, look, I will help you here. You know, I'll give you a little bit of technology here and get you over this hump here.
I told the story, Lue and I've told this story before to senators that what we need to know is that this is the story of the little boy in the butterfly. That there was a little boy that loves butterflies. He had a big like, little aviary thing out in his backyard where all the butterflies lived in this big old, big gigantic cage like a fly around. And he was he was looking for a perfect specimen to have a monarch butterfly and he finally found a cocoon of a little monarch butterfly and he brought it home and he put it in a little box with cotton in it and put a little light on and kept it nice and warm and monitored the whole thing and watched it develop and finally started to develop and grow. It started to break out and the butterfly struggled and struggled, was breaking out of the cocoon, and was struggling against the last tiny thin silken thread of the cocoon. It was struggling mightily. The little boy watched and he felt so bad about that. They finally got a little pair of scissors and he clipped the last little silken thread, and the butterfly came free. It was the most perfect specimen of a monarch butterfly you could ever see. Except that it could never fly. Because it turns out that the struggle against that last silken thread was necessary to develop the muscle structure that the butterfly needed in order to be able to fly. And so for us, we're at this moment here with our human family where we're struggling against the not just silken threads of our own creation, but entire ropes that we've tied around ourselves, of fighting with each other and putting resources into weapons and in being racially
prejudiced and gender prejudiced and everything that we're at a particular stage right now, where we have to evolve. We have to evolve in order to reach up into the stars here. This is an extraordinary moment that we have here. So we have to supplement this work that's being done by this office as important as it is to look into the UFO phenomena, to surround it with a philosophical, theological, metaphysical set of discussions about our whole human family so that we can transcend our own self-imposed constraints on our possibilities here. That's what the 501(c)3 is hopefully going to be, and people that are stepping forward insisting that we put this together, is going to just mean it's going to do it.
I have to reach out and talk with all of our people and all of our friends that we've made down over the last 50 years of working together, to try to overcome our own internal challenges in our own community, to be able to help our larger community here in the United States and our whole planet. That's what's really going on here, Jimmy, but this is the moment. You know, this focus on this office has been set up by the Defense Department, in the United States Congress, and the Senate is going to be extremely important. You know, I want to to work with everybody that we possibly can to cooperate on this.
JC Where can everybody reach out if they want to help or get involved?
DS Well, they can contact me at the Romero Institute. It's named after Oscar Romero, the Catholic priest who was murdered down in El Salvador trying to help poor people. FYI, the 501(c)3 public interest organization, we have a whole integrated auxiliary project which is a New Paradigm Project, but that's going to be the home of the 501(c)3. We're going to set up a completely independent 501(c)3 in cooperation with all of our friends.
They can reach me at at email@example.com or (Daniel dot Sheehan at Premier institute.org - not working) and I will get back to everybody and try to get people involved in the conversation so that we can set up the office in Los Angeles. People are offering us a facility down there, a big facility that we can use and staff up, are offering us funds to put it together. I have to put together the administration of the thing and the coalition of people that will be advisors to this. I want us all to remain completely friendly and leaning into getting this thing to succeed this 501(c)3, that we're going to be putting together.
JC Danny, thank you so much. I'm going to be hanging out with you in a couple of months at EXPO once again this year. It's going to be amazing and hopefully I'll see you before then. Thank you my friend for everything that you do.
DS Thank you for everything you do and for everybody out there. I really appreciate getting a chance to chat with you.
JC You're the absolute best Danny Sheehan, and again everybody can reach out to Danny at the Romero Institute and the links for that are below. Danny, behave and be well my friend.
DS I will, thank you so much Jimmy.